Fire the government
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04-10-2013, 10:26 PM
RE: Fire the government
(04-10-2013 10:10 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 10:01 PM)BryanS Wrote:  And the current House, duly elected, is refusing to fund it. That's also their Constitutional right.

A House which was duly elected by constituents who want the law repealed.

We wouldn't even be here if a minority of elitist didn't use backroom deals and parliamentary shenanigans to pass a law the majority of the US didn't want. So while the ACA might technically be the law of the land, you shouldn't be surprised one bit were in the situation we are in.

That's the way ALL legislative actions are worked out. You think they sit in their seats, and read the Babble ? There was absolutely NOTHING different about that law. They can vote in people who can change it, if they REALLY want it changed. Meanwhile, there are millions getting covered who otherwise would have no coverage. The leading cause of bankruptcy is unpaid medical bills. We'll see who' right. There is no way Americans who had no coverage will EVER go back to no coverage.

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05-10-2013, 12:33 AM
RE: Fire the government
(04-10-2013 10:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 10:10 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A House which was duly elected by constituents who want the law repealed.

We wouldn't even be here if a minority of elitist didn't use backroom deals and parliamentary shenanigans to pass a law the majority of the US didn't want. So while the ACA might technically be the law of the land, you shouldn't be surprised one bit were in the situation we are in.

That's the way ALL legislative actions are worked out. You think they sit in their seats, and read the Babble ? There was absolutely NOTHING different about that law. They can vote in people who can change it, if they REALLY want it changed. Meanwhile, there are millions getting covered who otherwise would have no coverage. The leading cause of bankruptcy is unpaid medical bills. We'll see who' right. There is no way Americans who had no coverage will EVER go back to no coverage.

Medicare and Social Security didn't get passed like this, either did the Bush prescription drug benefit. This piece of shit bill left a lot skid marks on the bowl when it went down.

So far it appears very few people have signed up since the exchanges are have opened so it appears that even with Obama care....millions of people are still without coverage.
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05-10-2013, 12:37 AM
RE: Fire the government
(04-10-2013 09:58 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 09:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  As the Chasinator said, it's what governments do. They pass law on our behalf. To say that it's "forced" upon us is stupid.

Really? You know the US Constitution reads "Congress shall pass no law..." and goes on to list the things that Congress is and is not allowed to do, and it then states that anything that falls out of a small list of enumerated powers cannot be passed as law and the Supreme Court has the duty to strike down such laws as constitutional, leaving the matter up to the states to decide.

So, when you say "it's what governments do", what you're forgetting is that it's NOT what government would be doing IF government was upholding the rule of law. The President, Congress and Supreme Court all swear an oath to uphold the constitution. So they ARE breaking the law. Where we see things differently is that in my opinion the role of government is to uphold the law. The people agree to certain rules, they get written into a constitution, and government is supposed to uphold that rule of law. You seem to think it's simply inevitable that the government is never going to follow the rule of law in the constitution. But the reason it has become inevitable is only because guys like you don't hold government officials accountable when they break the law. Recent case in point: James Clapper, head of the NSA, lied under oath during sworn testimony before Congress. It's perjury. The law states that he should go to jail. If you or I did it, we would go to jail. The constitution also states that government employees have an obligation to report such criminal behavior, and that they are guaranteed government protection for doing so. But, when Edward Snowden exposed the crime, the government pursued him, and, Clapper, who perpetrated the crime, didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

You guys, see government employees as being above the law, as though they're some "super human" with special rights that us mere mortals do not. But the fact is they are humans just like the rest of us, and when you exalt them to god-like status, you're empowering tyrants. Here's an interesting video I and I shared where a guy explains how your view of government is a religion in every sense of the word: link. You're worshiping a different god, but you're still worshiping a god nonetheless.


Well this is the most retarded thing I have seen a while.

You seem to have absolutely no clue as to a) what governments are for b) what I said and c) my opinions on various things.
So allow me to address your post bit by bit so I may specifically point out the parts where you are being particularly retarded.

Quote:Really?

Yes really.
Governments pass laws, pay the bills (fund public services ie: fire department) and handle foreign relations. That's why they exist believe it or not.
And yes, a key part of that is making laws that the public must abide by.

America has a weird system where the Judaical branch has power to strike said laws down (effectively) BUT the government still makes the law in the first place and the Judaical branch cannot pass law. In a common law system where case law is very important judges has very limited power to make things into law in a very limited way. A way that sort of fills in the gaps of what the government was trying to do in the first place.

Quote: You know the US Constitution reads "Congress shall pass no law..." and goes on to list the things that Congress is and is not allowed to do, and it then states that anything that falls out of a small list of enumerated powers cannot be passed as law and the Supreme Court has the duty to strike down such laws as constitutional, leaving the matter up to the states to decide.

1) It doesn't say it can't pass law. You're an idiot.

2) I read these enumerated powers you speak of, it actually took a bit of a digging as my google searches kept giving the 1st amendment, you know, the one where it also say the government has the power to pass laws just so long as they don't infringe on human rights and religion. Anywho, found these enumerated powers under section 8. The interesting one being where it allows for laws for "the general welfare of the United States".

So go suck dick bitch.

Quote:So, when you say "it's what governments do", what you're forgetting is that it's NOT what government would be doing IF government was upholding the rule of law.

Idiot.

Quote: The President, Congress and Supreme Court all swear an oath to uphold the constitution.

Yes, one that allows the government to pass law for the "general welfare of the united states".

I should also note that the government and judiciary both interpret the whole of section 8 very broadly.

Quote:So they ARE breaking the law.

No they're not.

Quote:Where we see things differently is that in my opinion the role of government is to uphold the law.

I haven't even given opinion, you're assuming.
The government has the same obligation to uphold the law that all the countries citizens do in the sense that we have to abide by them. It's the role of judiciary to interpret these laws and issue judgment upon people.

Quote: The people agree to certain rules, they get written into a constitution, and government is supposed to uphold that rule of law.

Well it could be argued if we agree to it or are forced to agree to it but we can get into that another time.
But yes, you Americans subscribe to your constitution. The very document giving power to the government to make laws such as Obamacare, so again, go suck dick bitch.

Quote:You seem to think it's simply inevitable that the government is never going to follow the rule of law in the constitution.

No.. I never said that did I... You're assuming I hold certain believes when I don't.
I believe that your government must and does follow the rules layed out in the constitution, and if they don't than your supreme court will step in and veto the shit out of it.

Quote: But the reason it has become inevitable is only because guys like you don't hold government officials accountable when they break the law.

Assuming AGAIN and assuming VERY wrongly I might add.
Don't put words in my mouth you idiot.
Of course I think if people break the law than they should suffer the consequences, it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire, welfare beneficiary, politician, celebrity or a fucking founding father...
Astronauts are cool though, they can do whatever the fuck they want.

You sir, are an idiot.

Quote: Recent case in point: James Clapper, head of the NSA, lied under oath during sworn testimony before Congress. It's perjury. The law states that he should go to jail. If you or I did it, we would go to jail.

I agree, he should go to jail. I fail to see how this relates.

Quote: The constitution also states that government employees have an obligation to report such criminal behavior, and that they are guaranteed government protection for doing so. But, when Edward Snowden exposed the crime, the government pursued him, and, Clapper, who perpetrated the crime, didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

It's not that Snowden leaked stuff, it's the way he went about doing it that is legally wrong.

And I don't know what he leaked, but I'm guessing I would agree that whoever did whatever wrong that made Snowden leak that information should be punished for whatever he did wrong.

Again you're words in my mouth.

Quote:You guys, see government employees as being above the law

No I really don't. Stop being a fucking idiot.
If anything I hold more accountable than regular citizens to uphold the law.

Quote: But the fact is they are humans just like the rest of us, and when you exalt them to god-like status, you're empowering tyrants. Here's an interesting video I and I shared where a guy explains how your view of government is a religion in every sense of the word: link. You're worshiping a different god, but you're still worshiping a god nonetheless.

It's at this part of my post where I realized I was replying to I&I's sock puppet.

I thought I was replying to Franky. God damn this guy and his similar name.
I wouldn't have bothered if I had seen it was I&I. Talk about a waste of time.

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05-10-2013, 06:36 AM
RE: Fire the government
(04-10-2013 09:14 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 08:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Tax fraud in Switzerland is a criminal offense. You seem to ignore that.

Jeez, did you forget to take your meds??? You forgot already that we went over this in the other post? Remember, I gave you links to the Swiss tax authority website, to wikipedia, to cnn, to nbc, to the nytimes, etc., which all confirmed that tax evasion (refusing to pay taxes) is NOT a crime in Switzerland. Nobody goes to jail for it.

What IS a crime is fraud, such as forging documents. It doesn't matter whether it's for tax reasons or not. 'Force' is when you use threats of physical force and violence (arrest, incarceration, etc.). The fact is that the IRS _DOES_ use force. So the disagreement between us is, as always, that you favor the use of force, and I favor a peaceful solution.


No, I don't favor using force, I accept that incarcerating people is necessary.

Quote:
Quote:I have no problem with the appropriate use of force

Yes, you've made that very, very clear. Whenever you want somebody to do something, you want to send in people with guns to force them to do it. Just like conservatives.

You are tiresome. Your childish attempts to make everything black and white are simplistic and shallow.

Quote:What you fail to acknowledge is that you say "appropriate use of force" like there's agreed upon, universal definition. There's not. What you're defining as "appropriate use of force" is simply any force you feel is appropriate. The difference between us is that no matter how much I think something is appropriate, I don't force other people to do it my way.

I say 'appropriate' because I mean 'appropriate'. We negotiate the social contract and come to consensus on what is appropriate and proportionate. Does everyone agree on the result? No, of course not. Your ideology seems to require that we do. Good luck with that.

Quote:The case in point with Obamacare. I already explained my situation. Until now, I've had access to the best health care around, any procedure I might ever need, at a very affordable price, including exotic procedure's not offered in the US, like Kobe Bryant's. Now, with Obamacare, I am being forced to give up my current doctors and health care, and instead put my life in the hands of one of the private, for-profit corporations that funded Obama's election, which, btw, reward their staff for killing me off if when I get sick, and will possibly deny me access to treatment I may need.

You think it's an "appropriate" use of force.

No, I did not. The Affordable Care Act does not require you to give up your current health care plan.

Quote: But I will bet you that if we check the health insurance companies revenues and profits 5 years from now, you will find that they're make a lot more money post-Obamacare than pre and that health care costs rise much higher than general inflation, which means that, as usually happens, your club-wielding is going to backfire and end up just being a massive transfer of wealth from the common people to the insurance industry. And this isn't surprising, because you guys always end up voting for fellow club-wielders who promise to force everyone to do things your way. But you're oblivious to the cold, hard truth that to get and stay elected they need the money from the corporations you're trying to regulate so, the corporations, the health insurance companies, end up writing their own regulation, which is why Obamacare is, from start to finish, nothing but a massive gift and transfer of wealth to the insurance companies.

Speculation.

Quote:BTW, in my prior post about a US person moving to Canada and still having to pay Obamacare, I asked you if you thought it was fair. I'll just keep asking the question until you answer it, since it's obviously making you dance in circles to avoid it.

No, I agree with you that it is a dreadful law.

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05-10-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Fire the government
Quote:The Affordable Care Act does not require you to give up your current health care plan.

Chas, you are wrong. I have attached a scanned copy of the letter I received from Anthem Blue Cross last month to prove it. It explains that, because of the ACA, I will lose the insurance plan I have, which allows me to pick my own doctors (which are great), and be forced to adopt a new plan, which does not. And the ACA-mandated rate increase is over 500%!

The democrats have, in effect, invaded my home with guns, forcing my family to give up the health care that has kept us safe and healthy, and forcing us to instead get shitty health care from the evil corporations that fund their campaign, which corporations reward their employees for killing us off when we get sick. At some point, this may cost someone in our family their life. But, at the very lost, it will cost my children over $1 million--money they could have used for education, or to start a business, is being taken from us at gunpoint and given to the insurance companies that funded Obama's election. And why are the Democrats doing this? They say it's to ensure the poor get access to health care. But that's bullshit; the fact is that the very poor are actually LOSING their access to health care, as I'll explain.

The details of my situation. As I explained to you before, I had a 'high deductible' plan with Anthem Blue Cross. It's full insurance, and covers everything, but I have to pay the first $10,000. Therefore, it's only used for emergencies and big expenses, which is actually what insurance is supposed to be! Nobody gets car insurance that covers car washes and gas. Obviously the insurance companies, on average, pay out in claims for a policyholder less than they collect in premiums. So, it would be moronic if, instead of paying Shell $70 to fill your tank, you had to fill out a bunch of paperwork and file claims with your insurance company which then paid the $70 to Shell, and charged you $100 in premiums. With insurance you will always, on average, pay more than it would have cost you to pay the expense yourself. The reason for insurance is simply IF the cost of paying for something yourself is more than you could afford, it's a way of mitigating the risk. Health insurance, therefore, isn't really "insurance", because most people use it for everything, including routine checkups. The doctor gets, say, $300 for the checkup, but instead of paying $300, the patient pays the insurance company $400--and the insurance company gets to pick the doctor, and the employer gets to pick the insurance company. So what most people have is NOT “insurance” in the real sense—it's actually just handing over their health and fate to a corporation. We've forgotten that, and we've forgotten that the reason for this goes back, of course, to government regulation decades ago forcing this situation.

So I had real “insurance” in that sense. It was there for emergencies and major illness only. Like car insurance, I've actually never filed any claim my whole life. And the cost of this “real insurance” is minimal: it was $50/month for an individual and $90 for a whole family. For all routine medical expenses, like checkups, I pay for themselves, and my family's primary care physician is in Mexico. We get MUCH better care than we could in the US, in a state of the art facility, with a great doctor who went to Harvard Medical School, and did his research at John's Hopkins. Because it's a medical tourism facility, where we, the patients are in control of choosing our medical care, they compete vigorously to offer us the best service at the best price. There is zero waiting. When you have an appointment at 3:00, it starts at exactly 3:00. And when they say to schedule an hour, the doctor himself is with you for a whole hour. And that one hour costs $90. I checked the prices, and even major procedures like heart-valve replacement costs $8,000. Hip replacement is also $8k. And this is at a hospital with HIGHER success rates than those in the US. So, by managing our health-care ourselves, we get much better care, at a much lower price. It saves my family around $1,000/month, which I can invest in a tax-free “Health Savings Account”, and at current rates of return, that will be over $1 million when I hit old age. Money which my children could use for their education, or to buy a home.

But even though I wasn't endangering anybody or hurting anyone with my health plan, you club-wielders have stripped all that way, taken that $1 million, and forced us to get shitty care and pay at least 5x more for it because you think that it will somehow it will reduce the rates you pay. But the joke is on you. If you had done the legislation at the local level where you could have more control and oversight over the process, and where people where more in agreement over their goals, maybe you could have made a good law. But instead you wanted to do it the national level, so that nobody could escape. This means it's handled by politicians thousands of miles away that are, unbeknownst to you, actually paid off by the insurance companies. And since half of the country is so adamantly opposed to Obamacare, it required ridiculous compromises so that the law, while still terrible for Republicans, is nothing like what Democrats wanted either. And in the mayhem and confusion, you guys lost track of the ball and didn't notice that the health insurance corporations were actually writing Obamacare, and the whole thing is a massive transfer of wealth to them. The Dems started out trying to help the poorest in our society. But as I explained, pre-Obamacare those living below the poverty line COULD get quality, affordable health insurance and care for $50/month, just like I did, with high-deductible plans and go to Mexico for routine checkups. Now, those plans are illegal and they've all been canceled (as shown in the scan I sent you) and the rates go up 500% so those below the poverty line cannot afford it, and they are too poor to quality for Obamacare subsidies either, and the states didn't expand Medicaid to cover them. So the fact is the very poor have LOST their access to health care thanks to Obamacare.

I ask you, what if all the libertarians banded together and sent armed men into your home, endangering the lives of your family, because we thought it somehow benefited us? You wouldn't like it so much, would you. Fortunately for you, libertarians would never do that to you. This is why we can't stand the Democrats and Republicans. If we're willing to leave you alone and let you live your lives the way you want, why are you so damn insistent on forcing us to live our lives the way you want?!


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05-10-2013, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2013 10:45 AM by Chas.)
RE: Fire the government
(05-10-2013 10:08 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
Quote:The Affordable Care Act does not require you to give up your current health care plan.

Chas, you are wrong. I have attached a scanned copy of the letter I received from Anthem Blue Cross last month to prove it. It explains that, because of the ACA, I will lose the insurance plan I have, which allows me to pick my own doctors (which are great), and be forced to adopt a new plan, which does not. And the ACA-mandated rate increase is over 500%!

The democrats have, in effect, invaded my home with guns, forcing my family to give up the health care that has kept us safe and healthy, and forcing us to instead get shitty health care from the evil corporations that fund their campaign, which corporations reward their employees for killing us off when we get sick. At some point, this may cost someone in our family their life. But, at the very lost, it will cost my children over $1 million--money they could have used for education, or to start a business, is being taken from us at gunpoint and given to the insurance companies that funded Obama's election. And why are the Democrats doing this? They say it's to ensure the poor get access to health care. But that's bullshit; the fact is that the very poor are actually LOSING their access to health care, as I'll explain.

The details of my situation. As I explained to you before, I had a 'high deductible' plan with Anthem Blue Cross. It's full insurance, and covers everything, but I have to pay the first $10,000. Therefore, it's only used for emergencies and big expenses, which is actually what insurance is supposed to be! Nobody gets car insurance that covers car washes and gas. Obviously the insurance companies, on average, pay out in claims for a policyholder less than they collect in premiums. So, it would be moronic if, instead of paying Shell $70 to fill your tank, you had to fill out a bunch of paperwork and file claims with your insurance company which then paid the $70 to Shell, and charged you $100 in premiums. With insurance you will always, on average, pay more than it would have cost you to pay the expense yourself. The reason for insurance is simply IF the cost of paying for something yourself is more than you could afford, it's a way of mitigating the risk. Health insurance, therefore, isn't really "insurance", because most people use it for everything, including routine checkups. The doctor gets, say, $300 for the checkup, but instead of paying $300, the patient pays the insurance company $400--and the insurance company gets to pick the doctor, and the employer gets to pick the insurance company. So what most people have is NOT “insurance” in the real sense—it's actually just handing over their health and fate to a corporation. We've forgotten that, and we've forgotten that the reason for this goes back, of course, to government regulation decades ago forcing this situation.

So I had real “insurance” in that sense. It was there for emergencies and major illness only. Like car insurance, I've actually never filed any claim my whole life. And the cost of this “real insurance” is minimal: it was $50/month for an individual and $90 for a whole family. For all routine medical expenses, like checkups, I pay for themselves, and my family's primary care physician is in Mexico. We get MUCH better care than we could in the US, in a state of the art facility, with a great doctor who went to Harvard Medical School, and did his research at John's Hopkins. Because it's a medical tourism facility, where we, the patients are in control of choosing our medical care, they compete vigorously to offer us the best service at the best price. There is zero waiting. When you have an appointment at 3:00, it starts at exactly 3:00. And when they say to schedule an hour, the doctor himself is with you for a whole hour. And that one hour costs $90. I checked the prices, and even major procedures like heart-valve replacement costs $8,000. Hip replacement is also $8k. And this is at a hospital with HIGHER success rates than those in the US. So, by managing our health-care ourselves, we get much better care, at a much lower price. It saves my family around $1,000/month, which I can invest in a tax-free “Health Savings Account”, and at current rates of return, that will be over $1 million when I hit old age. Money which my children could use for their education, or to buy a home.

But even though I wasn't endangering anybody or hurting anyone with my health plan, you club-wielders have stripped all that way, taken that $1 million, and forced us to get shitty care and pay at least 5x more for it because you think that it will somehow it will reduce the rates you pay. But the joke is on you. If you had done the legislation at the local level where you could have more control and oversight over the process, and where people where more in agreement over their goals, maybe you could have made a good law. But instead you wanted to do it the national level, so that nobody could escape. This means it's handled by politicians thousands of miles away that are, unbeknownst to you, actually paid off by the insurance companies. And since half of the country is so adamantly opposed to Obamacare, it required ridiculous compromises so that the law, while still terrible for Republicans, is nothing like what Democrats wanted either. And in the mayhem and confusion, you guys lost track of the ball and didn't notice that the health insurance corporations were actually writing Obamacare, and the whole thing is a massive transfer of wealth to them. The Dems started out trying to help the poorest in our society. But as I explained, pre-Obamacare those living below the poverty line COULD get quality, affordable health insurance and care for $50/month, just like I did, with high-deductible plans and go to Mexico for routine checkups. Now, those plans are illegal and they've all been canceled (as shown in the scan I sent you) and the rates go up 500% so those below the poverty line cannot afford it, and they are too poor to quality for Obamacare subsidies either, and the states didn't expand Medicaid to cover them. So the fact is the very poor have LOST their access to health care thanks to Obamacare.

I ask you, what if all the libertarians banded together and sent armed men into your home, endangering the lives of your family, because we thought it somehow benefited us? You wouldn't like it so much, would you. Fortunately for you, libertarians would never do that to you. This is why we can't stand the Democrats and Republicans. If we're willing to leave you alone and let you live your lives the way you want, why are you so damn insistent on forcing us to live our lives the way you want?!

The letter says absolutely nothing about any dire consequences to your coverage, just that they are redefining them for compliance.
Have they informed you as to the available plans?


Look, you can pick apart almost any legislation and find 'force'. To what end? You have made your point pretty clear.

Go campaign for libertarians, go run for office. Write your Congressman and Senators. Do something useful.

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05-10-2013, 10:57 AM
RE: Fire the government
Quote:The letter says absolutely nothing about any dire consequences to your coverage, just that they are redefining them for compliance. Have they informed you as to the available plans?

The letter says "As mandated by the ACA, you will need to move to a new ACA compliant plan in 2014." I called them and asked if I could my plan or anything similar to it. They said 'no'. My lowest cost option is now their 'bronze' plan, which is 5x as expensive because, instead of being real "insurance" that's there just for emergencies, it's a full "health plan" where they take over everything, handle all your routine care, pick which doctors you can see, and so on.

So, yes, ACA DOES force me to give up my high-quality, affordable health care. It forces me to give up the family doctor I love (in Mexico), and the high-quality medical tourism facility I used to go to.

Quote:Go campaign for libertarians, go run for office. Write your Congressman and Senators. Do something useful.

That's not an option. Did you see my post #65 in the 'Differences in Political Views' thread (page 7) about the rigged 2012 Presidential Campaign? Even if libertarians DO win fair and square, the Republicrats have total control over the whole process and will simply void the election results and put one of their own in. The US does effectively have a one-party system that maintains absolute control, and it's simply disguised as a 2 party system. No matter how much a libertarian wins over people with reason, and even if wins the votes, the Republicrats will never give up the power.

Here's the problem. When two people have a disagreement, and one uses logic and reason, and the other uses a gun, which side wins? Libertarians reject using violence, we state the logic and reason for everything, just like I did in my last post where I laid it all out clearly. But that's no match for the Republicrats (Republicans and Democrats) who use violence to strip you of your rights at gunpoint and force you to do things their way, just like they're doing with Obamacare. Logic and reason, unfortunately, cannot stop a bullet.
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05-10-2013, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2013 11:22 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Fire the government
(05-10-2013 10:08 AM)frankksj Wrote:  It saves my family around $1,000/month, which I can invest in a tax-free “Health Savings Account”, and at current rates of return, that will be over $1 million when I hit old age.

The tax exempt portion of an HSA is limited to around $500/month but that doesn't diminish your point. And I'm not at all sure that the law will have the desired effect of reducing the societal burden of individuals like my unemployed uninsured alcoholic brother-in-law who shows up in the ER 3-4 times a year for DT. He's got medical bills in the $250K range that will never be paid. Think the law enforces the penalty on him by garnishing his wages or taking it out of his tax return but he ain't got no wages to garnish and he ain't filed tax returns for years. Be like milking blood from a stone.

The law certainly does screw people like you with carefully considered health care management plans. So let's fix the law. It already provides a low cost "catastrophic" coverage option like you have but only for people under 30 or with limited incomes. Let's make that option available to everyone regardless of age or income. The people who primarily benefit from this law are those who either couldn't get insurance otherwise because of pre-existing conditions or those who couldn't afford it otherwise. I don't really consider this law or any of the other entitlement programs "wealth redistribution" because those receiving the benefits aren't accumulating any "wealth" from it, all that money goes back into the economy.

But I'm in the peanut gallery on this because it doesn't affect me not one wit. I get my insurance from the FEHB which is arguably what the ACA was based on and is also arguably the best insurance exchange in the country.

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05-10-2013, 12:02 PM
RE: Fire the government
(05-10-2013 10:57 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
Quote:The letter says absolutely nothing about any dire consequences to your coverage, just that they are redefining them for compliance. Have they informed you as to the available plans?

The letter says "As mandated by the ACA, you will need to move to a new ACA compliant plan in 2014." I called them and asked if I could my plan or anything similar to it. They said 'no'. My lowest cost option is now their 'bronze' plan, which is 5x as expensive because, instead of being real "insurance" that's there just for emergencies, it's a full "health plan" where they take over everything, handle all your routine care, pick which doctors you can see, and so on.

So, yes, ACA DOES force me to give up my high-quality, affordable health care. It forces me to give up the family doctor I love (in Mexico), and the high-quality medical tourism facility I used to go to.

Quote:Go campaign for libertarians, go run for office. Write your Congressman and Senators. Do something useful.

That's not an option. Did you see my post #65 in the 'Differences in Political Views' thread (page 7) about the rigged 2012 Presidential Campaign? Even if libertarians DO win fair and square, the Republicrats have total control over the whole process and will simply void the election results and put one of their own in. The US does effectively have a one-party system that maintains absolute control, and it's simply disguised as a 2 party system. No matter how much a libertarian wins over people with reason, and even if wins the votes, the Republicrats will never give up the power.

Here's the problem. When two people have a disagreement, and one uses logic and reason, and the other uses a gun, which side wins? Libertarians reject using violence, we state the logic and reason for everything, just like I did in my last post where I laid it all out clearly. But that's no match for the Republicrats (Republicans and Democrats) who use violence to strip you of your rights at gunpoint and force you to do things their way, just like they're doing with Obamacare. Logic and reason, unfortunately, cannot stop a bullet.

That's straight-up paranoia.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-10-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Fire the government
(03-10-2013 01:27 PM)RaisdCath Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 01:20 PM)I Am Wrote:  If you mean every elected and appointed employee, I'm all with you. Us regular working stiffs kinda need our jobs, though. We're the ones who actually DO things anyway, y'know?

And for which dept/agency do you "do" things?

DoD here. While I get to do interesting things like code up Command and Control and various Intelligence applications and whatnot shit, probably my most important role is to reign in the private sector of the Military Industrial Complex. "No we will not pay you millions of dollars for an application I could code up myself in a week. That'd just be silly."

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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