Poll: Should guns be legal for civilians to own?
No, none whatsoever
Hunting rifles only
All guns according to current US laws
All guns, full auto included
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Firearms?
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03-11-2011, 10:49 PM
Firearms?
Not sure what the typical opinion here is - or in general with Atheists. I've found a strong correlation between gun owners and fundamentalist Christianity, but I'm wondering, what do people think?

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03-11-2011, 11:16 PM
RE: Firearms?
This is a tough one for me, I tend toward wanting stricter gun laws- certainly not more lenient gun laws. I think that the US needs to do a better job of enforcing current gun laws.

I grew up in a household with firearms, and I learned how to shoot as a kid (though I'm a terrible shot). Even so, I'm not very comfortable with guns but it has crossed my mind to get one for protection in my home. If I ever felt unsafe, I probably would.
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04-11-2011, 07:58 AM
RE: Firearms?
Guns dont kill people, people kill people...
If banning guns would change that fact, then we should ban all knifes and other pointy things Tongue
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04-11-2011, 08:13 AM
 
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 07:58 AM)Trabbit Wrote:  If banning guns would change that fact, then we should ban all knifes and other pointy things

Knives have other, much needed purposes (like eating, cooking, cutting ropes, etc.)

Guns don't.

The only conceivable purpose of a gun is to destroy (or threaten to destroy) life.

No way around it.
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04-11-2011, 08:37 AM
RE: Firearms?
The counter argument to banning guns for me is that if we ban guns, sooner or later the only people who have guns will be the criminals. They are necessary. Security in banks for example. Criminal behaviour is illegal but that don't stop people from doing it. And if you then say 'fine, but people can't own their own'... well, but then a private security firm can be a private army. I think it's better to trust people to be responsible and allow them to have guns if they want them - personally I wouldn't know one end from the other so I'd rather just get shot by the hypothetical criminal bugbear I've been using.

That said, US law is very permissive (not that I know much about it). But you can have fully automatic weapons, and everyone, even crazy people, has the right to wear a weapon, in some states it can even be a concealed weapon? *And* fully automatic - surely that's nuts?
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04-11-2011, 08:39 AM
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 08:37 AM)morondog Wrote:  The counter argument to banning guns for me is that if we ban guns, sooner or later the only people who have guns will be the criminals. They are necessary. Security in banks for example. Criminal behaviour is illegal but that don't stop people from doing it. And if you then say 'fine, but people can't own their own'... well, but then a private security firm can be a private army. I think it's better to trust people to be responsible and allow them to have guns if they want them - personally I wouldn't know one end from the other so I'd rather just get shot by the hypothetical criminal bugbear I've been using.

That said, US law is very permissive (not that I know much about it). But you can have fully automatic weapons, and everyone, even crazy people, has the right to wear a weapon, in some states it can even be a concealed weapon? *And* fully automatic - surely that's nuts?

I thought fully auto is not legal. Semi-auto only. But I could be wrong.
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04-11-2011, 08:44 AM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2011 08:51 AM by Azaraith.)
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 08:13 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 07:58 AM)Trabbit Wrote:  If banning guns would change that fact, then we should ban all knifes and other pointy things

Knives have other, much needed purposes (like eating, cooking, cutting ropes, etc.)

Guns don't.

The only conceivable purpose of a gun is to destroy (or threaten to destroy) life.

No way around it.

You forget hunting, target practice (a sport and hobby in itself for many) and self defense (the least common in actual use). Not arguing for or against (yet), but just pointing that out.


(04-11-2011 08:39 AM)kineo Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 08:37 AM)morondog Wrote:  The counter argument to banning guns for me is that if we ban guns, sooner or later the only people who have guns will be the criminals. They are necessary. Security in banks for example. Criminal behaviour is illegal but that don't stop people from doing it. And if you then say 'fine, but people can't own their own'... well, but then a private security firm can be a private army. I think it's better to trust people to be responsible and allow them to have guns if they want them - personally I wouldn't know one end from the other so I'd rather just get shot by the hypothetical criminal bugbear I've been using.

That said, US law is very permissive (not that I know much about it). But you can have fully automatic weapons, and everyone, even crazy people, has the right to wear a weapon, in some states it can even be a concealed weapon? *And* fully automatic - surely that's nuts?

I thought fully auto is not legal. Semi-auto only. But I could be wrong.

Full auto is legal, with a federal stamp - hard to get, very carefully tracked. However, only guns manufactured prior to 1986. The result is that full auto guns are very expensive - $10k and above, MP5 is $20k for example.

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04-11-2011, 08:56 AM
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 08:39 AM)kineo Wrote:  I thought fully auto is not legal. Semi-auto only. But I could be wrong.

You're probably right - I'm so unspeakably lazy that even checking on wikipedia is beyond me, but since you asked...

Connecticut allows all NFA firearms except for selective fire machine guns. Selective fire machine guns existing in Connecticut before they were banned are grandfathered. Selective fire means that a machine gun can fire semi or fully automatic. A machine gun that can only fire fully automatic is legal in Connecticut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in...(by_state)

Well, that seems backwards ??? Most other states restrict automatic weapons...
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04-11-2011, 08:56 AM
RE: Firearms?
Here in Canada, we have just eliminated the firearms registry. It required people to register all firearms. It quickly proved to be expensive and useless. It forced responsible people to go through a useless and costly process to register their guns. The registry ended up targeting responsible farmers and hunters, while criminals were unaffected. A criminal won't register their gun whether the law is in place to register or not, so the restrictions only applied to those who were legal gun owners anyways. This is a good example of how gun regulation can be very ineffective (The crimes involving guns was unaffected by the registry. The only result was an inconveinience to responsible people and a whole lotta tax money flushed down the toilet)

As for making guns illegal alltogether, I think the same issue would arise. Criminals own guns, and making a law that prohibits gun ownership simply means that people who abide by the law will no longer own guns, while those that wish to use them for criminal activity will simply break the gun ownership laws along with the other laws they break.

I own guns, and they are for reasons that are legit. A couple shotguns, for hunting and skeet shooting. A deer rifle, and a small .22 (my critter gun for skunks, raccoons etc that get into the chicken coop and whatnot) Making guns illegal would take away these legitimate uses, all the while leaving guns in the hands of those who would use them to harm other people.

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04-11-2011, 09:04 AM
 
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 08:44 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  You forget hunting, target practice (a sport and hobby in itself for many) and self defense (the least common in actual use).

I did not forget hunting. It involves destroying life (I am a vegetarian, firmly against killing of any kind, for fun or convenience).

Target practice I have no problem with, as long as it is done with guns/rifles BOLTED/CHAINED to the benches at the gun club and people can't take them away.

Self defense with a gun is not very practical -- usually the defender gets killed with his/her own gun. Never mind the countless accidents that happen with guns kept at home for the purpose of self defense. Intelligent precaution, good security system and proper safety practices are far superior to having a gun tossed into some drawer out of reach when an intruder surprises you.
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