Firearms/Second Amendment
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29-01-2011, 11:42 AM
 
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
the "what's it to you?" response is what i'd expect from a god fearing teabagger.... along with the " lets take our country back" motto... i'm still wondering who they want to "take it back" from, but its one of those cliches that they can easily remember.. its the answers they find hard to find.
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29-01-2011, 11:52 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(29-01-2011 11:33 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Then my answer to that question would be, "What it is to me is that if it's none of my business, like your answer implies, then why are you flaunting your 'gun collection'?" I just don't get the showing off thing.

Haven't flaunted anything Big Grin I merely answered "why do you want multiple guns" with "why not, and why would you care?"

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29-01-2011, 12:07 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(29-01-2011 10:52 AM)Kar98 Wrote:  
(29-01-2011 04:18 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(29-01-2011 01:47 AM)aesirus Wrote:  I don't "need" multiple handguns. I "want" multiple handguns. No one really needs a Hummer or 3 cars. The reason for me wanting multiple weapons is irrelevant. It should not be the place of government to tell me I only need a 10 round magazine or 1 gun a month. Especially since it's one of a handful of civil liberties directly written in the constitution.

The reason for you wanting handguns is irrelevant? Don't you think that would help others understand your motives for voicing yourself so loudly? Or are you saying that it's personal information? Too personal to share in public?

No, what he's saying is the only reason he wants multiple handguns is because he wants them. It's like asking why do you want multiple wristwatches? Or several books? And the answer to these questions is "because I fucking can and what's it to you?"

At least that would be my answer Wink

Pretty much. Smile

I don't expect everyone to agree with gun ownership. And I don't expect everyone to even choose to own a gun. I have no problems with someone who does not want to own a firearm. Just don't tell me I can't or decide for me what I can own. And unless someone is going to seriously hurt me or someone else my gun will only ever shoot inanimate targets.
Eventually I may learn to hunt but that has never been my motivating factor in choosing a weapon.

I haven't read through the entire thread, do you own a Kar98? If so, I'm jealous. Smile

Liberty loving, gun owning Atheist. Don't worry it confuses the right as well.
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29-01-2011, 12:17 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(29-01-2011 12:07 PM)aesirus Wrote:  I don't expect everyone to agree with gun ownership. And I don't expect everyone to even choose to own a gun. I have no problems with someone who does not want to own a firearm. Just don't tell me I can't or decide for me what I can own. And unless someone is going to seriously hurt me or someone else my gun will only ever shoot inanimate targets.
Eventually I may learn to hunt but that has never been my motivating factor in choosing a weapon.

Right. I don't bitch about other peoples' extravagances, even though I may find them stupid and pointless (really, who would even want a big screen TV? Or several? A movie collection? LOL!), they don't get to bitch about mine Wink

Quote:I haven't read through the entire thread, do you own a Kar98? If so, I'm jealous. Smile

A couple. And a Gew.98 (same thing, just longer, older, prettier, and minor differences in detail). And some other stuff, most of it vintage, except for one modern 9mm pistol that I bought new almost ten years ago.

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29-01-2011, 12:25 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
Nice. The economy, debt, and now a divorce have put my gun buying on hold. But I've still got a job!

As for the collection, I used to bitch constantly about the things that other people bought. Then I realized I was being a hypocrite. I may not understand why someone wants 100 nfl helmets, 1,000 hubcaps, or even those freaking crystal animal things but then I don't have to.

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29-01-2011, 07:35 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
Just to weigh on the "why do you have these weapons" argument: personally, I find the answer of "because I want to" the most intellectually honest answer to that question. The common arguments all center around 3 central themes, those being:
1. because otherwise we can't keep the government in check;
2. because then only criminals will have guns; and
3. for self defense.

All of these arguments are pretty spurious and if argued based on actual facts they really do not hold up. I've seen a lot of dancing around the statistics and facts to support these 3 arguments, but how anyone who is looking to make a serious argument and is really looking at the facts can make those 3 arguments is just beyond me. The new one I saw here was "because a majority of Americans want to buy the product". I've never seen that argument before but I think that is demonstrably false as less then 50% of Americans own a gun and opinion polls show less then 50% want to.

But, the simply argument of "because I want to and I'm a free person who should not have to explain himself to anyone" is, in my mind at least, really the best argument. It's simple, it's concise, and it can't be easily refuted. It puts the other side in the position of having to explain why a free, law abiding citizen can't have what he wants. I've actually thought for years that the gun lobby would be a lot more effective if they took this approach but I've never seen anyone really make that argument before.

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29-01-2011, 08:08 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
Why do I have a gun personally? Because the army has conditioned me to the point where I feel unsafe and unprepared without one. Is this answer applicable to why Americans should have the right to bear arms? Nope.

However, the people have a right to uphold the things they want. The government is simply there to speak for the people. So when the government tries to step in and "protect us from ourselves" (ie drugs, guns, breach of privacy), it's a step in the wrong direction. In a true democracy, if the people want it, the people should have the right to attain it, regardless of moral implications.

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29-01-2011, 10:50 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(29-01-2011 11:05 AM)freethinker1 Wrote:  a wise gun owner keeps his guns out of sight and knows that the "they will take your guns away " rant is just a ploy to get you to vote against your own best intrest. so relax ... nobody except the thieves you just bragged to want your guns...
^^Thats me! I own a rifle, something cheap for target practice. I would like to purchase a handgun and a shotgun, but those purchases keeps getting pushed back, you know, textbooks, wedding plans, credit card bills...in short, life. I've even got my fiancee on board with the idea. She is as close as you can get to being a hippie and without actually being one, and she wants to do to the range with me. But a gun is not the type of thing I would use to define my life. It will be a hobby, and in emergency situations, a tool. Something that may mean the difference between the life and death of me or a loved one. And with a concealed carry idea in mind, something that I think less people should know the details of, not more. I honestly think it would be great if the government attempted a gun control idea that was more on the line of cutting down on the illegal ones, an attempt to get them out of hands of gang members the inner cities.
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30-01-2011, 01:59 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
If they could find a way to do that so that it didn't infringe on my own rights then I'd have no problems. However, no one has come up with anything yet. Also, the very fact that a gun may be illegal shows that the person doesn't care about the law. So what law could be made to make them care? The threat of the death penalty doesn't stop murder.

As long as people focus on the inanimate object instead of the root causes of gun violence we will never fix anything.

Liberty loving, gun owning Atheist. Don't worry it confuses the right as well.
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30-01-2011, 09:03 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(30-01-2011 01:59 AM)aesirus Wrote:  As long as people focus on the inanimate object instead of the root causes of gun violence we will never fix anything.

There is no doubt truth to that, but there is no denying that guns make angry and crazy people a lot more dangerous then they would otherwise be.

I'm not a gun person. Never fired one, never owned one and have no intention of doing so. I'm not bothered by gun ownership being legal, but, personally, I do think the types of guns we have available have gotten out of hand.

In my mind, my right to walk around in a public place should trump your right to fire 30 shots a second instead of 19. We put reasonable restrictions on civil liberties all the time. Freedom of speech is the most important right for Americans, yet we allow regulation of time, place and manner. Obviously, reasonable minds can disagree on what a reasonable restriction is, but society does do this. You have the right to peaceful assembly, but you must first get a permit to have a rally, and if it requires an additional police presence then the state can charge you. These have been deemed reasonable restrictions that do not impede fundamental rights but are necessary for public safety.

So, why not restrictions on they types of weapons or ammunition that a normal person can purchase? When you look at the last 2 big shootings, Tuscon and Virgina Tech, in both cases the shooters were not criminals up until the pulled the trigger (although Loughner may have had some minor drug charges against him that maybe should have prevented him from buying a gun) and it's not like they had bought guns off the black market. Both these individuals owned legal weapons and were able to commit horrifying acts. Obviously any gun would have given them the ability to kill people, and if you have guns these things can always happen, but why give them the ability to basically become a 1 man army?

I'm ok with guns being legal, per se. But, restrictions on the types of guns, especially hand guns, that you can own and the number of rounds you can fire without reloading is where I think that some restrictions should be put in place.

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