Firearms/Second Amendment
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30-01-2011, 11:25 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(30-01-2011 08:59 PM)Kar98 Wrote:  
(30-01-2011 02:48 PM)BnW Wrote:  At no point in in there does it state that you have the right to own a gun simply because you want one.

Doesn't say I can't either. Big Grin

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Just read your Sig. I love that movie. It's classic cold war. I hear the remake is a bit watered down on the Nationalism.

Liberty loving, gun owning Atheist. Don't worry it confuses the right as well.
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31-01-2011, 08:27 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(30-01-2011 08:59 PM)Kar98 Wrote:  
(30-01-2011 02:48 PM)BnW Wrote:  At no point in in there does it state that you have the right to own a gun simply because you want one.

Doesn't say I can't either. Big Grin

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

No, it does not, and I'm a big believer in the idea that any power not explicitly given to the government is therefore not given to them. I'm also not advocating banning ownership of guns and would be against any push to do so. Where we differ in opinion is I don't have an issue with limiting certain types of weapons and ammunition to the general public, and you obviously disagree. I'd probably be ok if they had some kind of additional screening or licensing before you could buy these things, but selling them to the general public basically over the counter just seems a bit dangerous to me.

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31-01-2011, 10:27 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(31-01-2011 08:27 AM)BnW Wrote:  Where we differ in opinion is I don't have an issue with limiting certain types of weapons and ammunition to the general public, and you obviously disagree. I'd probably be ok if they had some kind of additional screening or licensing before you could buy these things, but selling them to the general public basically over the counter just seems a bit dangerous to me.

I said there _IS_ an additional screening and licensing before you buy certain things like fully automatic weapons, mortars, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices and a few other things, and I'm OK with that.

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31-01-2011, 10:29 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
Yes, but I'd push for them to be added for the 31 shot clip as well, something that does not currently exist.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
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31-01-2011, 11:08 AM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
(31-01-2011 10:29 AM)BnW Wrote:  Yes, but I'd push for them to be added for the 31 shot clip as well, something that does not currently exist.

The restriction (e.g. no handgun magazines larger than 10 rounds, etc.) existed for a while on a Federal level, made no discernible difference (it had been in effect for half a decade when Columbine High got shot up, for instance), and was allowed to expire. Some states still have these and similar restrictions on the book.

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20-02-2011, 05:11 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
Switzerland has the most guns per capita and guarantees just like the Second Amendment, yet they don't have the retarded petit-bourgeois or self-employed gun culture of the US.

Quote:Full, lawsuit-enforced freedom of class-strugglist assembly and association for people of the dispossessed classes, even within the military, free especially from anti-employment reprisals, police interference such as from agents provocateurs, and formal political disenfranchisement.

The expansion of the abilities to bear arms, to self-defense against police brutality, and to general self-defense, all toward enabling the formation of people’s militias based on free training, especially in connection with class-strugglist association for people of the dispossessed classes, and also free from police interference by the likes of agents provocateurs.

Explain to me why when the UK banned Pistols, and anything that is Fully Automatic and Semi-Automatic why the crime rate went up 300%?

Gun restrictions are a band-aid on the real underlying issues that make an individual commit a violent act.

I was reading the Christian Science Monitor coverage of this story and they quoted teachers, students and an administrator at the Community College this guy went to and they all said that they were afraid he would come to class and shoot everyone up - the teacher asked the school to remove him and even the administrators though he was scary and tried to figure out a way to kick him out of school. Eventually they did because he made a youtube video criticizing the school!

Gee everyone around him thought he was going crazy, they don't have the facilities or the ability to deal with someone with mental problems so they remove him (probably adding to his social alienation and feelings of persecution) when, in a fucking rational society, there would be ways to care for people like him and help him! And if there were safe and decent places (not like the Sanitariums of the past in the US) then when other people see someone talking to themselves and unable to sit through a class without some creepy outburst about being persecuted, then maybe other people would feel like they could actually try and help him to get treatment.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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20-02-2011, 08:50 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
Plus, the stigma surrounding treatment must be removed so that people won't avoid it like a plague.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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21-02-2011, 11:20 PM
RE: Firearms/Second Amendment
I agree with the "I should be legally entitled to own a gun because I want to" argument is the most honest, and perhaps one of the best ones. The most common arguments that I've heard up here are these:

1. Hunting
2. Target shooting
3. It's a hobby (buying, selling, restoring, collecting, etc.)

Since we don't have a constitution like that of the States, Canadians can't use arguments based on anything like that, nor can we really use the "fear for our safety" argument since there's not a whole lot of crime here. People up here (at least from around my hometown) use guns for sport, and almost every household has one, or two, or ten Wink

There's also a pretty big community that revolves around gun shows. They're kind of like trade shows, just with gun owners and gun/hunting companies who show off their products, and people can buy/sell their weapons. People who are opposed to gun ownership or who support banning guns have never, I am guessing, been to anything like this. The people who go to these things are avid about the sport, and they are also rational people who are using guns safely. It would not be fair to these people to take this away from them (much like banning martial arts or archery would be).

I generally agree that limiting access to extremely dangerous weapons is a no-brainer, but I don't think that anybody is arguing otherwise?

Also, I think sosa hit the problem on the nose. It is the social/political atmosphere that is the problem, not the guns themselves. The reason that countries like the US and the UK have a problem with crime is not because of guns, but because they lack a lot of social programs that help those who, without any other means of supporting themselves, resort to criminal activity, or who, without proper health care, don't get the treatment that they need to prevent them from going beserk on everybody else.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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