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Firearms?
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06-12-2011, 07:36 PM
RE: Firearms?
"The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade."
Guns were banned in 1996 after a man walked into the gym at Dunblane primary school with a gun opened fire and killed 16 young children and their teacher. He also injured 13 other children and three teachers.

That is just one of many examples of why guns shouldn't be allowed.

Violent crime has went down since then, both of those links you posted say that.

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06-12-2011, 07:46 PM
RE: Firearms?
(06-12-2011 07:36 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  "The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade."
Guns were banned in 1996 after a man walked into the gym at Dunblane primary school with a gun opened fire and killed 16 young children and their teacher. He also injured 13 other children and three teachers.

That is just one of many examples of why guns shouldn't be allowed.

Violent crime has went down since then, both of those links you posted say that.

Opening lines of those articles:
Quote:Violent crime and firearms offences on the rise: police figures
Despite an overall crime dip of 5%, violent crime in England and Wales has risen by 11% compared to the same quarter last year, according to police figures out today.
Quote:Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

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06-12-2011, 07:51 PM
RE: Firearms?
(06-12-2011 07:07 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 06:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not true - violent crime has increased since the good people of GB were disarmed. Look it up.

I'd rather Take a punch to the face than a bullet to the face any day.

Also can you provide a source for that fact?

Knives and bats hurt plenty.

Plus:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6118520/expedi...-9mm-smg-p

and

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/expedi...structions

Took me 2 minutes to find that example. More complex than necessary... You can also use regular metal pipes with a screw on cap on one end and a grill ignitor installed in the side, screws as ammo, wadding and then a propellant is easy - anything that is readily combustible, like gasoline. Just pretend you need a gun and do some creative problem solving on how to make one... People have made the SMG version I linked too and were arrested IN THE UK.

Plus, you can actually own guns in the UK - there are 1.8 million of them (registered, probably at least several hundred/thousand unregistered): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?...l=en#gid=2

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06-12-2011, 08:07 PM
RE: Firearms?
(06-12-2011 07:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 07:07 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 06:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not true - violent crime has increased since the good people of GB were disarmed. Look it up.

I'd rather Take a punch to the face than a bullet to the face any day.

Also can you provide a source for that fact?

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=34326

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/l...urope.html

All the while, murder rates in gun-toting USA have gone down.

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07-12-2011, 08:40 AM
RE: Firearms?
It strikes me that this debate is much like the ID/evolution debate.

There are people who believe that guns mean violence, and getting rid of the guns would curb or end violence. They have good intent, but their belief is so strong that they ignore any contrary evidence.
Then there are people who look at the evidence and conclude that there are good reasons for gun ownership, and they do not ignore the contrary evidence - that gun accidents kill and wound people, even children - that crazy people get hold of guns and do terrible things - criminals use them. Their conclusion is that the evidence for outweighs the evidence against.

The pro-ID (really anti-evolutionary) people find the idea that humans aren't special creations of some god so scary or repugnant, they ignore any contrary evidence.
There are those who, even though the implications of evolution are scary, are convinced by the evidence.

Just musing.

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07-12-2011, 08:44 AM
RE: Firearms?
(07-12-2011 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  It strikes me that this debate is much like the ID/evolution debate.

There are people who believe that guns mean violence, and getting rid of the guns would curb or end violence. They have good intent, but their belief is so strong that they ignore any contrary evidence.
Then there are people who look at the evidence and conclude that there are good reasons for gun ownership, and they do not ignore the contrary evidence - that gun accidents kill and wound people, even children - that crazy people get hold of guns and do terrible things - criminals use them. Their conclusion is that the evidence for outweighs the evidence against.

The pro-ID (really anti-evolutionary) people find the idea that humans aren't special creations of some god so scary or repugnant, they ignore any contrary evidence.
There are those who, even though the implications of evolution are scary, are convinced by the evidence.

Just musing.


Even if gun regulation had a mild effect on voilent crime, I'm of the opinion that removal of rights for general safety is a like a walking a tightrope. Tobacco kills far more people than guns but noone wants to ban tobacco (well some do). Same with cars and planes. We can't continue to dissolve our liberties under the guise of public safety.

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07-12-2011, 08:45 AM
RE: Firearms?
(07-12-2011 08:44 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  It strikes me that this debate is much like the ID/evolution debate.

There are people who believe that guns mean violence, and getting rid of the guns would curb or end violence. They have good intent, but their belief is so strong that they ignore any contrary evidence.
Then there are people who look at the evidence and conclude that there are good reasons for gun ownership, and they do not ignore the contrary evidence - that gun accidents kill and wound people, even children - that crazy people get hold of guns and do terrible things - criminals use them. Their conclusion is that the evidence for outweighs the evidence against.

The pro-ID (really anti-evolutionary) people find the idea that humans aren't special creations of some god so scary or repugnant, they ignore any contrary evidence.
There are those who, even though the implications of evolution are scary, are convinced by the evidence.

Just musing.


Even if gun regulation had a mild effect on voilent crime, I'm of the opinion that removal of rights for general safety is a like a walking a tightrope. Tobacco kills far more people than guns but noone wants to ban tobacco (well some do). Same with cars and planes. We can't continue to dissolve our liberties under the guise of public safety.

Living actually kills you. We should outlaw life.

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07-12-2011, 08:54 AM
RE: Firearms?
(07-12-2011 08:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:44 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  It strikes me that this debate is much like the ID/evolution debate.

There are people who believe that guns mean violence, and getting rid of the guns would curb or end violence. They have good intent, but their belief is so strong that they ignore any contrary evidence.
Then there are people who look at the evidence and conclude that there are good reasons for gun ownership, and they do not ignore the contrary evidence - that gun accidents kill and wound people, even children - that crazy people get hold of guns and do terrible things - criminals use them. Their conclusion is that the evidence for outweighs the evidence against.

The pro-ID (really anti-evolutionary) people find the idea that humans aren't special creations of some god so scary or repugnant, they ignore any contrary evidence.
There are those who, even though the implications of evolution are scary, are convinced by the evidence.

Just musing.


Even if gun regulation had a mild effect on voilent crime, I'm of the opinion that removal of rights for general safety is a like a walking a tightrope. Tobacco kills far more people than guns but noone wants to ban tobacco (well some do). Same with cars and planes. We can't continue to dissolve our liberties under the guise of public safety.

Living actually kills you. We should outlaw life.

So it is said, and so it shall be done.

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10-12-2011, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2011 03:24 PM by Clint Barnett.)
RE: Firearms?
I was raised with guns, I fired my first shotgun when I was 8yrs old. I have a few guns but I could care less if I shot them often.

I still like having the option of having a gun in the event something ever happened. Do I think there would be an invasion of our country in my lifetime? Nope, but hey citizens having guns would create pure havoc if something like that ever happened lmao!

I'm completely in agreement with what someone said about People killing people. If they didn't have a gun to do it, they would find another way.
(04-11-2011 08:13 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 07:58 AM)Trabbit Wrote:  If banning guns would change that fact, then we should ban all knifes and other pointy things

Knives have other, much needed purposes (like eating, cooking, cutting ropes, etc.)

Guns don't.

The only conceivable purpose of a gun is to destroy (or threaten to destroy) life.

No way around it.

Guns are used for than just destruction. There are scenarios that have been used as a propellant in a zero gravity situation(space walks). Another scenario is at airfields use them to scare off birds to keep from disrupting flights. There are many others that guns are used for that don't cause destruction.

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10-12-2011, 05:38 PM
RE: Firearms?
(10-12-2011 03:16 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I was raised with guns, I fired my first shotgun when I was 8yrs old. I have a few guns but I could care less if I shot them often.

I still like having the option of having a gun in the event something ever happened. Do I think there would be an invasion of our country in my lifetime? Nope, but hey citizens having guns would create pure havoc if something like that ever happened lmao!

I'm completely in agreement with what someone said about People killing people. If they didn't have a gun to do it, they would find another way.
(04-11-2011 08:13 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 07:58 AM)Trabbit Wrote:  If banning guns would change that fact, then we should ban all knifes and other pointy things

Knives have other, much needed purposes (like eating, cooking, cutting ropes, etc.)

Guns don't.

The only conceivable purpose of a gun is to destroy (or threaten to destroy) life.

No way around it.

Guns are used for than just destruction. There are scenarios that have been used as a propellant in a zero gravity situation(space walks). Another scenario is at airfields use them to scare off birds to keep from disrupting flights. There are many others that guns are used for that don't cause destruction.

There's also target practice. Not sure I mentioned it, but there are a signficant number of people that are involved in that sport. It can be fun even if the only thing you're shooting is paper.

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