Poll: Should guns be legal for civilians to own?
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Firearms?
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10-12-2011, 05:48 PM
RE: Firearms?
For me, it comes down to self-defense. You can bat around statistics about crime rates and gun accidents, and philosophical questions about the distinction between an object designed to kill and one that can be used to kill.

There are bad guys out there. If one of them attacks me, whatever he has in in his hands, he has a very good chance of that being his last action in this life, because I have a firearm, I have the knowledge of how to use it, and I have the will to use it.

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

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10-12-2011, 08:42 PM
RE: Firearms?
(10-12-2011 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  For me, it comes down to self-defense. You can bat around statistics about crime rates and gun accidents, and philosophical questions about the distinction between an object designed to kill and one that can be used to kill.

There are bad guys out there. If one of them attacks me, whatever he has in in his hands, he has a very good chance of that being his last action in this life, because I have a firearm, I have the knowledge of how to use it, and I have the will to use it.

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Ditto.

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11-12-2011, 03:54 AM
RE: Firearms?
I think the issue here is teaching respect and proper use of the weapon. In Swizterland where my father came from every male between 18 and about 35 has a goverment issue automatic rifle in their home and they have had military training in it's proper use. They have one of the highest firearm ownership per capita in the world, and some of the lowest rates of homicide from firearms, mainly I would think due to the strict training, the strict gun laws, and the fact that any one that wishes to commit a crime can be be pretty sure that they will have to deal with a military trained person with an automatic rifle in almost every home they might wish to enter.

I think in most parts of America any idiot could have a gun without training of any kind. I think there should be some training requirement to own a gun, the more powerful the weapon the longer and more specialized training would be required. I wouldn't think that people would object to this too much, after all if you are buying a gun for protection would you also like to know that you could actually use it when you needed to?
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11-12-2011, 10:13 AM
RE: Firearms?
That'd never work. It's too sensible Tongue People would cry discrimination or something stupid. I'm all for it though.

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11-12-2011, 02:01 PM
RE: Firearms?
Going a little off topic here but I had a remark to make...
(04-11-2011 09:44 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  Not everyone is a vegetarian, most aren't. For them, hunting is an acceptable use. I don't see a human hunting a deer as any more wrong/immoral than a lion killing a gazelle. (Actually, it's far more humane - just watch a video of a lion kill, or worse, a hyena).
So you're saying we humans have the same analyzing/thinking capabilities as a lion? That we would starve to death if we didn't hunt, or even eat meat for that matter? That we don't have a choice but to kill?

I think that the human species is more capable than that.
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11-12-2011, 02:06 PM
RE: Firearms?
(11-12-2011 02:01 PM)Adaptive Wrote:  Going a little off topic here but I had a remark to make...
(04-11-2011 09:44 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  Not everyone is a vegetarian, most aren't. For them, hunting is an acceptable use. I don't see a human hunting a deer as any more wrong/immoral than a lion killing a gazelle. (Actually, it's far more humane - just watch a video of a lion kill, or worse, a hyena).
So you're saying we humans have the same analyzing/thinking capabilities as a lion? That we would starve to death if we didn't hunt, or even eat meat for that matter? That we don't have a choice but to kill?

I think that the human species is more capable than that.

We have to kill something, animal or plant. Hard to find a way around not killing something to get something. Last I checked that was simply the way it is Smile

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11-12-2011, 02:07 PM
RE: Firearms?
(11-12-2011 02:01 PM)Adaptive Wrote:  Going a little off topic here but I had a remark to make...
(04-11-2011 09:44 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  Not everyone is a vegetarian, most aren't. For them, hunting is an acceptable use. I don't see a human hunting a deer as any more wrong/immoral than a lion killing a gazelle. (Actually, it's far more humane - just watch a video of a lion kill, or worse, a hyena).
So you're saying we humans have the same analyzing/thinking capabilities as a lion? That we would starve to death if we didn't hunt, or even eat meat for that matter? That we don't have a choice but to kill?

I think that the human species is more capable than that.

I don't think he's saying that; I definitely wouldn't.
You are assuming that it is wrong to kill animals for food, that humans should be 'above' that. Not everyone agrees with you.

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11-12-2011, 02:45 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2011 02:48 PM by Azaraith.)
RE: Firearms?
(11-12-2011 02:01 PM)Adaptive Wrote:  Going a little off topic here but I had a remark to make...
(04-11-2011 09:44 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  Not everyone is a vegetarian, most aren't. For them, hunting is an acceptable use. I don't see a human hunting a deer as any more wrong/immoral than a lion killing a gazelle. (Actually, it's far more humane - just watch a video of a lion kill, or worse, a hyena).
So you're saying we humans have the same analyzing/thinking capabilities as a lion? That we would starve to death if we didn't hunt, or even eat meat for that matter? That we don't have a choice but to kill?

I think that the human species is more capable than that.

My point was, what makes us different from a lion? "Above" a lion in "morality" of not killing other animals for food? Sure, we're more intelligent, but that doesn't make us separate / unique from animals. We're just a very intelligent species (sometimes...) We're both just species of animal, adapted each in our own way to best survive in our environment. Unless you're stating that lions are also wrong to hunt and kill their prey, they just get a pass because they're stupid?

Purely vegetarian diets have been known to have some nutritional issues, some of which can be dealt with by vitamins, but the fact is we evolved as omnivores and do best with a mixed diet. See here for one perspective on it that's a bit more thorough: http://www.acu-cell.com/veg.html

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11-12-2011, 03:11 PM
RE: Firearms?
I'm not a vegetarian myself... I haven't found a way to be one efficiently. Or maybe I haven't been looking for ways well enough. Huh

Just wanted that argue the view that we aren't lions in the wild. That we have choices.

I agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere. Just like how (most of us) don't eat monkeys or dogs. Plants are not animals...
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11-12-2011, 04:42 PM
RE: Firearms?
Plants have feelings too! Tongue

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