Poll: Should guns be legal for civilians to own?
No, none whatsoever
Hunting rifles only
All guns according to current US laws
All guns, full auto included
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Firearms?
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11-12-2011, 07:54 PM
RE: Firearms?
(11-12-2011 04:42 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Plants have feelings too! Tongue

Delicious feelings smothered in Ranch.

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11-12-2011, 09:57 PM
RE: Firearms?
I know it's only a small sample size so far but I was hoping that the last two options would have the smallest percentage. I think this viewpoint is shaped by my culture though, where we have very strict gun laws.

I'm from Australia... here we sort out our differences with fists...
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11-12-2011, 10:29 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2011 10:32 PM by Azaraith.)
RE: Firearms?
(11-12-2011 09:57 PM)tobiasfunke Wrote:  I know it's only a small sample size so far but I was hoping that the last two options would have the smallest percentage. I think this viewpoint is shaped by my culture though, where we have very strict gun laws.

I'm from Australia... here we sort out our differences with fists...

always w/ fists, right? http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/kap...6220006239

I wouldn't ascribe differences in murder rates solely to gun bans - it's hard to examine the statistics, because gun laws are so different in each country (it's not 100% ban or 100% allowed), but I wouldn't expect to see a high correlation either way. Switzerland is one of the lowest countries for murder per capita, way lower than Australia, yet they have one of the highest gun ownership rates (able bodied men all keep full-auto military rifles at home, w/ ammo, and train with them regularly). It has way more to do with culture, law enforcement, and a myriad of other factors than whether or not guns are legally available. There are still gun crimes in Australia as well... You can get guns anywhere if you want them, legal or not. US culture is just shitty, tbh. Too many macho "I'm bad, I'll be the baddest guy in my gang, watch me cap this foo!" type thugs. Bred largely by poor law enforcement techniques and a dumb drug war that fuels the cop vs. banger mentality.

It's a cliche, but the root problem is the people that are doing the killing, not the tools they're using to do it. The only way to actually make a difference with stricter gun laws in the US would be to make it nearly impossible to get a gun illegally. Good luck with that in a country as large and populous as the US, with a tendancy towards anti-authoritarian views...

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11-12-2011, 10:50 PM
RE: Firearms?
As a Canadian who has lived primarily in remote and isolated (fly-in) communities, I understand firearms (i.e rifles) to be tools of hunting for food and nothing else. I know in large cities like Toronto or Edmonton handguns are used in crimes far more often than rifles. Where I live, there are very rarely deaths by shooting unless it is suicide. In 20+ years, I've seen maybe half a dozen murder/ suicides and only 3 murders. Alcohol was a factor in all but one of those. I don't even know anyone who owns a handgun but almost everyone I know owns a hunting rifle.

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13-12-2011, 06:04 PM
RE: Firearms?
(11-12-2011 10:29 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  always w/ fists, right? http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/kap...6220006239

I wouldn't ascribe differences in murder rates solely to gun bans - it's hard to examine the statistics, because gun laws are so different in each country (it's not 100% ban or 100% allowed), but I wouldn't expect to see a high correlation either way. Switzerland is one of the lowest countries for murder per capita, way lower than Australia, yet they have one of the highest gun ownership rates (able bodied men all keep full-auto military rifles at home, w/ ammo, and train with them regularly). It has way more to do with culture, law enforcement, and a myriad of other factors than whether or not guns are legally available. There are still gun crimes in Australia as well... You can get guns anywhere if you want them, legal or not. US culture is just shitty, tbh. Too many macho "I'm bad, I'll be the baddest guy in my gang, watch me cap this foo!" type thugs. Bred largely by poor law enforcement techniques and a dumb drug war that fuels the cop vs. banger mentality.

It's a cliche, but the root problem is the people that are doing the killing, not the tools they're using to do it. The only way to actually make a difference with stricter gun laws in the US would be to make it nearly impossible to get a gun illegally. Good luck with that in a country as large and populous as the US, with a tendancy towards anti-authoritarian views...

Thank you so much for enlightening me about how Australians solve their differences... Up until this point I literally believed that ALL conflicts were resolved with fists. Personally I have had around 1000+ disagreements and therefore 1000+ fights... It's nice to know (the link you shared) that I can also brutally murder people who disagree with me.

End Sarcasm.
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13-12-2011, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2011 07:33 PM by ke4yqd.)
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 01:18 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  In England it's a countrywide running joke that Americans can't solve any sort of problem without resorting to guns, lawyers and therapists.

Anyone who thinks gun control doesn't reduce gun crime needs to look at the figures, we have strict gun control and far lower gun crime over here.

But this tends to only lies true in countries that never had a large population of gun owners. GB never had a large number of private gun owners. Look to your friends in Switzerland. They have a tremendous firearms culture, and UBER low crime!!! Now look at France, where during the war and revolution firearms were introduced, and now it is very hard to get one. There it is much more likely that miscreants have access to them while the general population do not.

I think more to the point would be a look at total crime statics vs poverty. Places that have high poverty are more likely to have high crime. And inventive people will find ways of expressing dominance over weaker peoples.

Look at how many people got hacked to death by a machete this year. It is extraordinary. Is the machete a useful tool...

I am a huge fan of personal responsibility. The example of Switzerland has already been brought up by me and others. I believe that an important responsibility as a citizen is to take all measures to defend what is yours.

I personally own a Saiga 12, a HK G-3 and a SSAR-15 for long guns, and several hand guns. I'm ex-military and have been a firearms enthusiast since I was 8 years old.

I think what usually happens in these discussions is that there are pros and cons, but the second amendment will not be over turned in the United States. And stricter regulation lends to wasted tax dollars, and a diminished ability for the populous to defend themselves.

One more thing, please don't post or quote the ABC videos of their reenactment of the Virginia Tech, where they recreated the scenario with random people with firearms firing simmunitions. Their results are totally bogus. Their "expert shooter" defending the classroom as a CCW holder, was a guy who played with toy bb guns. And they pitted him against two gunmen who were both police urban combat instructors...

I look at it this way, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
(04-11-2011 02:53 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Full auto, man. I wanna go down to the grocery store, pick up an A-K with my Frosted Flakes, keep the neighborhood in line. Tongue

How about your mac book pro?
This is an apple store in Switzerland. And it is not uncommon to see... I would love to go walking around Omaha with some of my firearms strapped to my back

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FwsQNSnkH5Q/Th...fle+lr.jpg


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14-12-2011, 11:41 AM
RE: Firearms?
(13-12-2011 07:07 PM)ke4yqd Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 01:18 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  In England it's a countrywide running joke that Americans can't solve any sort of problem without resorting to guns, lawyers and therapists.

Anyone who thinks gun control doesn't reduce gun crime needs to look at the figures, we have strict gun control and far lower gun crime over here.

But this tends to only lies true in countries that never had a large population of gun owners. GB never had a large number of private gun owners.

Yeah, like the Brits don't resort to violence to settle their conflict, right? Just go to a pub on a Friday night to see the civilized conflict resolution... I had to go to Britain to see somebody being killed. Stabbed actually. Then he run away chased by a cop without a gun. "Stop I say, stop or I'll blow my whistle at you!" Rolleyes

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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15-12-2011, 12:47 AM
RE: Firearms?
I'd like a full auto for nothing more than the ability to have one. But current law makes it too expensive. That and the cost of ammo every time you use it would be sick. As it is I'll stick with my AR variant and handful of handguns.

Liberty loving, gun owning Atheist. Don't worry it confuses the right as well.
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15-12-2011, 02:58 PM
RE: Firearms?
(04-11-2011 09:04 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  Self defense with a gun is not very practical -- usually the defender gets killed with his/her own gun. Never mind the countless accidents that happen with guns kept at home for the purpose of self defense. Intelligent precaution, good security system and proper safety practices are far superior to having a gun tossed into some drawer out of reach when an intruder surprises you.
This is a rather odd poll and post on an atheist forum.

You need to stop watching so much TV. I swear, you're espousing the lies put forth by the anti-gun crowd verbatim. Proof that the propaganda machine works.

Self defense with a gun is very practical. Just down the street from my house, a woman returned from shopping. Seeing a strange vehicle in the driveway, a woman in her 50's entered her house to find a twenty year old man searching for valuables in her bedroom. He threatened to harm her so she shot him and called police. Just one of the many cases that disprove your claim. She physically would be no match for him in a struggle. Guns are a great equalizer.

The "countless accidents" you speak of is also a lie. Attempts to quantify the so-called accidental discharge injuries in a recent study were proven to be inflated numbers. Do gun accidents happen? Yes, but not nearly as many as the "gun control" groups would have you believe.
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15-12-2011, 04:11 PM
RE: Firearms?
(15-12-2011 02:58 PM)weekendskp Wrote:  Self defense with a gun is very practical. Just down the street from my house, a woman returned from shopping. Seeing a strange vehicle in the driveway, a woman in her 50's entered her house to find a twenty year old man searching for valuables in her bedroom. He threatened to harm her so she shot him and called police. Just one of the many cases that disprove your claim. She physically would be no match for him in a struggle. Guns are a great equalizer.
Nice!!! Big thumbs up for the lady!

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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