First GOP Debate!
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14-08-2015, 04:38 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2015 04:42 PM by Alla.)
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 01:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  what wonders were lie? be more specific, please.
Maybe the part about everybody being free equals in a democratic society? Because that wasn't particularly true.
OK.
What do you mean by "equals"? in what way everybody is equal?
(14-08-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No society on Earth has ever come close to true equality of opportunity.
True. But in the USA anybody has an opportunity to achieve goals like in no other country on Earth.
But not all people want to do it. I saw many Latino women in 10 years couldn't say even 2 words in English. WHO is taking from them opportunities?
I saw young women who would have 4 or more kids from different men. They drop out from school. They use drugs. WHO is taking from them opportunities.
(14-08-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I'm glad things have worked out for you, but that is not the reality for millions of people.
Do you know why it worked out for me? Because I worked it out for myself. Poor immigrant had lots of opportunities in great country USA. I could achieve even more. But I didn't. And I know whose fault it is. My fault. I was too lazy.
I didn't need sugar daddy(welfare). I didn't need Democrat(Socialist) politician to help me.
If I took their handouts I would be poor person with no opportunities. How do I know this? Let me tell how I know this. When I came to America somebody told me to go to welfare (many Russians do). I did. I got assistance. But then I quickly realized that it is bottom of the bottom. I didn't come to America to collect government help. I realized that if I do not do something I will never progress.
America gave me lots of opportunities. I am happy.
I am not Trump exactly but I don't care. I am happy to be middle class, I am happy to own my house, land, my animals and many other things. I would never have it in Ukraine, or even in Sweden.
About millions of people. I believe that there is some of their own fault.
If I drop out of school who's fault is this? Who is robbing whom? Who is taking away opportunities from me?

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14-08-2015, 05:05 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(10-08-2015 08:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 06:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  Hillary gets thousands of $$ for her 20 min speech. I would give those money to the poor students.
Is this even fair?
Is it fair that athletes and movie stars are richer than me?
I asked you if it is fair that she makes big, big money for her speeches?
I really want you to tell me:
1)yes, it is fair
2)no, it is not fair.
$250,000 for one 20 min speech.
(10-08-2015 08:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  She couldn't ask for such high speaking fees if there weren't people who think her presence is worth that much to them.
There are so, so many better targets out there.
You missed my point. I am not trying to target anybody. I do NOT care what she makes.
this is my point:

I do NOT want to hear about equal opportunities from the person who doesn't want to be equal with me.
I do not want a person who doesn't want to be equal with me to tell me what is fair.

Now about this equal opportunities thing:
Let's say you and I want to become soldiers. You are healthy and of good build and I am not very much. I can not pass tests but you can.
Where is my equal opportunity?
We need to talk about equal rights but opportunities can not be equal. Because we are not equal, we are very different with different TALANTS and ABILITIES.

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14-08-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 04:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  True. But in the USA anybody has an opportunity to achieve goals like in no other country on Earth.

Nope. Canada gives people a better chance.

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14-08-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 06:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 04:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  True. But in the USA anybody has an opportunity to achieve goals like in no other country on Earth.

Nope. Canada gives people a better chance.

Yes, but then you have to start calling ham "bacon" and pretending to care about hockey.

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14-08-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 04:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Maybe the part about everybody being free equals in a democratic society? Because that wasn't particularly true.
OK.
What do you mean by "equals"? in what way everybody is equal?
(14-08-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No society on Earth has ever come close to true equality of opportunity.
True. But in the USA anybody has an opportunity to achieve goals like in no other country on Earth.
But not all people want to do it. I saw many Latino women in 10 years couldn't say even 2 words in English. WHO is taking from them opportunities?
I saw young women who would have 4 or more kids from different men. They drop out from school. They use drugs. WHO is taking from them opportunities.
(14-08-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I'm glad things have worked out for you, but that is not the reality for millions of people.
Do you know why it worked out for me? Because I worked it out for myself. Poor immigrant had lots of opportunities in great country USA. I could achieve even more. But I didn't. And I know whose fault it is. My fault. I was too lazy.
I didn't need sugar daddy(welfare). I didn't need Democrat(Socialist) politician to help me.
If I took their handouts I would be poor person with no opportunities. How do I know this? Let me tell how I know this. When I came to America somebody told me to go to welfare (many Russians do). I did. I got assistance. But then I quickly realized that it is bottom of the bottom. I didn't come to America to collect government help. I realized that if I do not do something I will never progress.
America gave me lots of opportunities. I am happy.
I am not Trump exactly but I don't care. I am happy to be middle class, I am happy to own my house, land, my animals and many other things. I would never have it in Ukraine, or even in Sweden.
About millions of people. I believe that there is some of their own fault.
If I drop out of school who's fault is this? Who is robbing whom? Who is taking away opportunities from me?

Feeling confused, because you say that taking handouts makes you a poor person with no opportunities, but at one point you state that you did take welfare assistance. And now, you don't have to take handouts, because you are in the middle class. You didn't come to American to collect government help…but you did anyway. That seems to have done you a lot of good, so why are you so opposed to other people using it?

As an adult, I have always worked for myself, but I have benefited from tax codes that let me deduct my mortgage interest as well as a number of expenses that, as a self-employed person, I get to write off while a person who has an employer doesn't get to deduct. As a child living in a poor household, I got reduced cost lunches for a year. As an American child, I also got a free education that my parents (not homeowners) did not pay for with their taxes.

It is myopic to believe that your economic situation is solely due to you and your own efforts, or to blame others for taking advantage of the structures a society's set up to help its members advance.
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14-08-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 07:01 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 06:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nope. Canada gives people a better chance.

Yes, but then you have to start calling ham "bacon" and pretending to care about hockey.

Since the new constitution went into effect, one is no longer required to care about hockey. This caused some hard feelings.

And of course there is the annual maple syrup allowance. Drooling

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14-08-2015, 07:59 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 07:03 PM)julep Wrote:  Feeling confused, because you say that taking handouts makes you a poor person with no opportunities,
I didn't say this. I said that if I am taking handouts it means I am poor. As long as I am taking handouts I am poor. If I like to take handouts I will NOT look for opportunities.
(14-08-2015 07:03 PM)julep Wrote:  but at one point you state that you did take welfare assistance. And now, you don't have to take handouts, because you are in the middle class.

I stopped taking handouts when I was poor. If I didn't stop while I was poor I wouldn't become middle class.
(14-08-2015 07:03 PM)julep Wrote:  You didn't come to American to collect government help…but you did anyway. That seems to have done you a lot of good, so why are you so opposed to other people using it?
When did I say this? When did I say that I oppose helping poor and needy?
My point is not about this. My point is this:
If I am poor adult it is not because I don't have an opportunity to live better, to improve quality of my life, but because it is my choice.
I had no money, no friends, no relatives, no English, different culture, different everything. But America offered to me many opportunities. To live on welfare was one of them. I chose the higher road. I know I could achieve more but I was either lazy or insecure insecure.
(14-08-2015 07:03 PM)julep Wrote:  As an adult, I have always worked for myself, but I have benefited from tax codes that let me deduct my mortgage interest as well as a number of expenses that, as a self-employed person, I get to write off while a person who has an employer doesn't get to deduct. As a child living in a poor household, I got reduced cost lunches for a year. As an American child, I also got a free education that my parents (not homeowners) did not pay for with their taxes.
It is myopic to believe that your economic situation is solely due to you and your own efforts, or to blame others for taking advantage of the structures a society's set up to help its members advance.
I am not against helping poor people. I am Christian. I am kind and compassionate person. I am not against welfare.
But I do not agree with those who say that in America there are people who can not have opportunities to live better lives unless government helps them.

I also do not understand this "equal opportunities" nonsense.
I can understand equal rights. But what is equal opportunities?
And how do equal opportunities make me and you equal?
what is "equal people"?

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14-08-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 06:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 04:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  True. But in the USA anybody has an opportunity to achieve goals like in no other country on Earth.

Nope. Canada gives people a better chance.
Do you live in Canada?

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14-08-2015, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2015 08:11 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 05:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  Now about this equal opportunities thing:
Let's say you and I want to become soldiers. You are healthy and of good build and I am not very much. I can not pass tests but you can.
Where is my equal opportunity?

The majority of the Armed Forces are not combat soldiers. You find your equal opportunity in clerks and logisitics and intel and combat pilots and snipers support functions.

#sigh
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14-08-2015, 08:35 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(14-08-2015 08:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The majority of the Armed Forces are not combat soldiers. You find your equal opportunity in clerks and logisitics and intel and combat pilots and snipers support functions.
what is equal opportunity? how should I understand this nonsense?

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