First GOP Debate!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-08-2015, 05:15 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2015 05:20 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 03:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-08-2015 03:27 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Did you actually read it beyond the title? It is calling for more social programs not less.
quote form the article:
"People still feel they want more solidarity in the system but THEY ARE ACTING DIFFERENTLY,” says Brandt. This gap between principle and practice threatens to systematically neglect a growing population of needy and excluded persons in Denmark.
I wonder why they acting differently/not according to what they want?

I found another quote: "A study of the discourse and practices surrounding that system suggests that Danish society has effectively ABANDONED—IN PRACTICE if not yet in mind—THE IDEALS underlying the original conception for the Danish Model.
Why do they abandon the ideals in practice (if not yet in mind)?

Alla, with all due respect, he's right. You're cherry-picking from the article. I just finished reading it. The article shows that government policy-makers have slowly shifted from the public programs they started to a more Libertarian model, but people still think it's the full socialism system they asked for. It still shows on paper (and in the public's mind) as full social programs, but the provision of actual services (mainly due to access to services limits) has altered. As a result of the shift, we're seeing changes in the system that are not for the better, and result in more poverty. In other words, they had a good system that everyone liked, they changed it when no one was looking into a bit more of the American way of doing things, and the result was an increase in negative outcomes. The solution, as Rev pointed out, would be to cancel the changes and go back to the full system.

Quote: The founding mantra of the Danish welfare system was essentially, “contribute what you can and get what you need.” Today, the system operates more in accordance with the idea that you should “contribute what you can and get in proportion to your contribution.” In other words, it has effectively changed from a system rooted in solidarity to one rooted in individualism.
In his 2001 article
“The Social Construction of an Imperative: Why Welfare Reform Happened in Denmark and the Netherlands but Not in Germany”, political scientist Robert Henry Cox suggests how such a shift in mindset took hold of Danish society almost unnoticed.

Also I'd like to point out that the data cited in that article are mainly comparing 2009 to previous decades; 2009 being a couple years into the full Euro-crisis after American capitalists exploded the world economy, remember?

Edit to Add: Many of the problem-shifts started in the 90s, according to the paper; but I am suggesting that it really only became felt after the 2007 economic crunch, when the social-safety-net systems are most needed, prompting articles like that. I also want to add the note that, despite whatever shortcomings they may cite in their system, it's still a damned sight better than ours. My college girlfriend, with whom I am still friends, lived there and in Holland (she married a guy I introduced her to, after a "let's be friends" breakup), and has recently moved back to the USA (Texas!!), and is fuming mad about the differences between there and here.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
15-08-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Alla, with all due respect, he's right. You're cherry-picking from the article. I just finished reading it. The article shows that government policy-makers have slowly shifted from the public programs they started to a more Libertarian model, but people still think it's the full socialism system they asked for.
Did I understand correctly that policy-makers change the model from "contribute what you can and get what you need”(mantra people love) to “contribute what you can and get in proportion to your contribution.” (mantra people do not like)?
If yes, why did they do this?

(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I also want to add the note that, despite whatever shortcomings they may cite in their system, it's still a damned sight better than ours. My college girlfriend, with whom I am still friends, lived there and in Holland (she married a guy I introduced her to, after a "let's be friends" breakup), and has recently moved back to the USA (Texas!!), and is fuming mad about the differences between there and here.
She can go back to Denmark. Smile
I say the same to those immigrants who complain how horrible Unites States are but for some reason do not go back to their countries.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-08-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  what if I am sick or stupid and I can not contribute a lot, but my needs are greater then I contribute?

Obviously you should be left to die. Or euthanized. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
15-08-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  I say the same to those immigrants who complain how horrible Unites States are but for some reason do not go back to their countries.

Did you grow up in Ukraine? For how long? 'Cause that would explain a lot.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-08-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Alla, with all due respect, he's right. You're cherry-picking from the article. I just finished reading it. The article shows that government policy-makers have slowly shifted from the public programs they started to a more Libertarian model, but people still think it's the full socialism system they asked for.
Did I understand correctly that policy-makers change the model from "contribute what you can and get what you need”(mantra people love) to “contribute what you can and get in proportion to your contribution.” (mantra people do not like)?
If yes, why did they do this?

(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I also want to add the note that, despite whatever shortcomings they may cite in their system, it's still a damned sight better than ours. My college girlfriend, with whom I am still friends, lived there and in Holland (she married a guy I introduced her to, after a "let's be friends" breakup), and has recently moved back to the USA (Texas!!), and is fuming mad about the differences between there and here.
She can go back to Denmark. Smile
I say the same to those immigrants who complain how horrible Unites States are but for some reason do not go back to their countries.

Hey, asshole. Pay close attention: She is a Cajun girl from Louisiana, in the United States. She moved there for her husband. He moved back here for her to be close to her family, because her parents are both very sick. They both dislike it here, and plan to return as soon as they can.

Take your "immigrants go back to where you came from" bullshit and shove it allllllll the way up your rectum. A little deeper... There you go!

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
15-08-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
Okay. I think I have been duped and Alla is a man playing a woman trolling us.

I'm a bloody fool at times. Too often in fact!

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-08-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
Ugh, sorry everyone else. That "immigrants" argument pisses me the fuck off, because America is a nation of immigrants and is supposed to have a tradition of being welcoming (and of being a better place to go than where they came from... not so much of that, anymore)... so when someone who emigrated to the USA says some bullshit like that, it gets my goat, especially when they say it about someone who emigrated from the USA to somewhere else, and reluctantly had to return.

Lenora and I may not be compatible as lovers, but I do care for her deeply; she is one of my favorite people on earth, and it stuck in my craw to see her bad-mouthed by a little snit who can't even understand the difference between Faux News and the real world. It's time for my evening "take a bike ride to cool off and go grab some grub", anyway. I'll be calmer when I return. Gotta test to be sure that I have gotten this guy's carbs dialed-in correctly. Tongue

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
15-08-2015, 06:10 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 05:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Alla, with all due respect, he's right. You're cherry-picking from the article. I just finished reading it. The article shows that government policy-makers have slowly shifted from the public programs they started to a more Libertarian model, but people still think it's the full socialism system they asked for.
Did I understand correctly that policy-makers change the model from "contribute what you can and get what you need”(mantra people love) to “contribute what you can and get in proportion to your contribution.” (mantra people do not like)?
If yes, why did they do this?

(15-08-2015 05:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I also want to add the note that, despite whatever shortcomings they may cite in their system, it's still a damned sight better than ours. My college girlfriend, with whom I am still friends, lived there and in Holland (she married a guy I introduced her to, after a "let's be friends" breakup), and has recently moved back to the USA (Texas!!), and is fuming mad about the differences between there and here.
She can go back to Denmark. Smile
I say the same to those immigrants who complain how horrible Unites States are but for some reason do not go back to their countries.

Yeah Hi Alla.

I am afraid I no longer believe you. I think you are acting the fool so as to waste our time and energy and troll us.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-08-2015, 06:11 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 06:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Ugh, sorry everyone else. That "immigrants" argument pisses me the fuck off, because America is a nation of immigrants and is supposed to have a tradition of being welcoming (and of being a better place to go than where they came from... not so much of that, anymore)... so when someone who emigrated to the USA says some bullshit like that, it gets my goat, especially when they say it about someone who emigrated from the USA to somewhere else, and reluctantly had to return.

Lenora and I may not be compatible as lovers, but I do care for her deeply; she is one of my favorite people on earth, and it stuck in my craw to see her bad-mouthed by a little snit who can't even understand the difference between Faux News and the real world. It's time for my evening "take a bike ride to cool off and go grab some grub", anyway. I'll be calmer when I return. Gotta test to be sure that I have gotten this guy's carbs dialed-in correctly. Tongue

Don't sweat it, bud. The nerve of an immigrant mouthing such ugly sentiments is appalling.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post
15-08-2015, 06:41 PM
RE: First GOP Debate!
(15-08-2015 06:11 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Don't sweat it, bud. The nerve of an immigrant mouthing such ugly sentiments is appalling.


“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”


― Emma Lazarus


Someone needs to remind Donald Trump. Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Banjo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: