First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
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07-06-2016, 06:21 AM
First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Hi!

In short, I'm 28 yo Estonian male with hc religious upbringing in Evangelical Lutheran family. I've had my doubts for long, but only recently, within last year or so, I've started to do research on my own and have basically let go of christian faith.

Now I'm facing a new problem where lots of close religious people come up with their questions, trying to debunk my atheistic view, and I fail to come up with reasonable answers. I feel like I am a poor debator and I totally freeze when I get into a discussion concerning religion and thus I am looking for assistance from this forum. I do read books, listen to debates and podcasts etc., but I haven't gathered enough knowledge and/or confidence to say out loud my thoughts.

I guess I should post my first question elsewhere (as soon as I have become more familiar with this forum and forums as a concept), but I'll share it anyway:

Brother-in-law: "I know that christians are often accused of circular reasoning, but how can YOU trust your senses in an atheistic worldview? Isn't trusting in your senses based on belief in itself? Aren't you thus guilty of circular reasoning yourself?"

Packmax: "I don't know, I have to dig into this"

Thanks in advance!
-Packmax (Gotta come up with a photo and signature etc.) Smile

"Smart people are good at reconciling what they believe in with what reality tells them." - Not Hodor
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07-06-2016, 06:35 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Welcome to TTA.

Lots of experts here, with lots of scars. No doubt they can help train you in self-defense.

Smile

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07-06-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Welcome!

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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07-06-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Howdy!

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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07-06-2016, 06:55 AM
First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Thanks for warm welcome! Didn't expect answers this fast.

Also, if you already know a thread related to my question a link will do aswell! Don't wanna be another lazy douche starting new threads wherever I want. Truth to be told I haven't had time to search these forums myself yet. Made first post quickly during work...


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"Smart people are good at reconciling what they believe in with what reality tells them." - Not Hodor
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07-06-2016, 07:15 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Hug

Hello! Big Grin
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07-06-2016, 07:43 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 07:47 AM by DLJ.)
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
(07-06-2016 06:55 AM)packmax Wrote:  Thanks for warm welcome! Didn't expect answers this fast.

Also, if you already know a thread related to my question a link will do as well! Don't wanna be another lazy douche starting new threads wherever I want. Truth to be told I haven't had time to search these forums myself yet. Made first post quickly during work...

Quick answer to "how can YOU trust your senses in an atheistic worldview?"

You can't.

Leaving aside the notion of an "atheistic worldview" which I do not think can be generalised (god(s) or no god(s) is a one issue topic rather than a broad set of opinions), and regarding trusting your senses... show your brother-in-law any optical illusion or ask them to judge the temperature of a glass of water using his finger after he has been a) wearing gloves for a while and then b) holding some ice.

This is why humans have discovered/developed logic, reasoning and the scientific method; which is still not 100% trust-worthy but has a built-in self-correcting mechanism so beats, hands down, the four old methods of determining truth values:
Faith
Authority
Revelation
Tradition

... or FART for short... hot air!

Big Grin

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07-06-2016, 07:45 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
The gods of the forum try to keep discussions out of the introductions section... go ahead and start a new thread with your question over in the 'atheism and theism' section. It's a good question.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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07-06-2016, 07:47 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
Welcome aboard Max
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07-06-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: First post on any forum ever + a jump straight into the action
(07-06-2016 06:21 AM)packmax Wrote:  Hi!

In short, I'm 28 yo Estonian male with hc religious upbringing in Evangelical Lutheran family. I've had my doubts for long, but only recently, within last year or so, I've started to do research on my own and have basically let go of christian faith.

Now I'm facing a new problem where lots of close religious people come up with their questions, trying to debunk my atheistic view, and I fail to come up with reasonable answers. I feel like I am a poor debator and I totally freeze when I get into a discussion concerning religion and thus I am looking for assistance from this forum. I do read books, listen to debates and podcasts etc., but I haven't gathered enough knowledge and/or confidence to say out loud my thoughts.

I guess I should post my first question elsewhere (as soon as I have become more familiar with this forum and forums as a concept), but I'll share it anyway:

Brother-in-law: "I know that christians are often accused of circular reasoning, but how can YOU trust your senses in an atheistic worldview? Isn't trusting in your senses based on belief in itself? Aren't you thus guilty of circular reasoning yourself?"

Packmax: "I don't know, I have to dig into this"

Thanks in advance!
-Packmax (Gotta come up with a photo and signature etc.) Smile

There's an easy solution to all that. Don't see yourself as trading in one worldview for another. But rather as trading belief for a lack of belief. Present yourself as someone who merely lacks a belief in religious claims about reality, god, etc. There by letting you off the hook for having something to argue as an alternative. And placing the burden squarely on the religious, to defend, and convince you of their position. Because you yourself have no particular position to defend or argue for. Your atheism shouldn't be presented as a belief that God/s doesn't exist, but a lack of belief that God/s exists.

This seems to work well for many people here, and it'll likely work well for you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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