First things First, Proving Existance of God
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28-09-2011, 10:47 AM
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
I've read some good statements above, but I'll group them for your convenience:


1 -If you want to prove 'God', you must define its concept first. I suppose you're referring to an all-powerful, creating God? And most likely the Judeo-Christian one? (or one of it's many variations and subgroups). Trying to prove YOUR God from the start is also erroneous, as there are many gods that claim to be creators.

2-Even if you happen to prove (the possibility of) God or a creator in a hypothesis or something alike, there is still the problem of scripture. TTA shows you a nice list of examples that demonstrate the fallacious nature of scripture. We can offer you many more examples if you wish that show us scripture can't be trusted.

3-Remember that most of us aren't atheists because we hate God or just like to spit into baby Jesus' face, but because we have studied scripture and science and then came to the conclusion that something was wrong. Don't take us for idiots. Most of us have gotten a higher education and we like to study in our spare time too.
Quoting Psalms 14:1 won't prove anything either. 'The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.'

4-If you want to start with 'phylosophy' (sic), make sure you are ready. Citing Thomas Aquinas' rules as proof for creation or Aristotles' allegory of the cave as a basis for human senses and perception won't cut it. We'll go waaaay deeper than that. Furthermore, a philosophy isn't necessarily correct just because it came from a philosopher. Because in that case 'God is dead' (Nietzsche) and I have proven that your statements are wrong. I suppose even you can see the argumentation fallacy here.

5-Sources and argumentation; I expect those. Don't continue making statements about things that you believe, but clearly explain WHY you believe this and WHY WE should believe it. Threats of hell, eternal damnation don't count, proof does.



I hope the rules are clear? I'll quit the debate after 3 strikes. I'll let your last post slip, for once...

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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28-09-2011, 10:51 AM
 
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
(28-09-2011 10:27 AM)fatihbarut Wrote:  He gave you a lot of plesure (even air to breath) and he gave you more pleasure then he gave you pain.

I am overwhelmed by god's generosity: not only it created me, but it even gave me air to breath. What an infinite benevolence!

I am sure it gave me all that pain so I would be grateful for the little pleasure it sprinkled on top.

You know, you may save me yet from my sins and ignorance if you continue to be this convincing!

Rolleyes
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28-09-2011, 10:57 AM
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
(28-09-2011 10:41 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  I tried that, padre, but my email addressed to god@heaven.com came back with the message: "undeliverable"

When I read this I tried typing in heaven.com to see if there was a site by that name. Here is what I got:

http://gmn.org/

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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28-09-2011, 10:59 AM
 
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
(28-09-2011 10:41 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(28-09-2011 10:27 AM)fatihbarut Wrote:  "Do you have his email address?"

Yes, call him God when ever you want where ever you are

I tried that, padre, but my email addressed to god@heaven.com came back with the message: "undeliverable"

PS. sorry for consistently spelling god with small 'g', but I have made a wow, in front of Einstein's statue, never to do it again, even in my poetry, where I invoke the concept purely for symbolic purposes, alluding to fate.!

Big Grin

The problem is, you wait miracles, while even prophets cant show miracles by theirselves except the times God wanted.

God says, in haven whenever somebody prays he says "thank you" after that pray because he gets the thing he prayed immediately.

But we have to realize that, we are here (on the earth) to prove that we are good enough to go to haven.
Therefore in here the only pray you can, is working working and working. The people who is working cleverly and hardly they get what they want in this world. However they lost it when they die, the most intelligent workers are working for eternal life and spend their power to that ( being good to people and being loyal to God)
(28-09-2011 10:47 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  We'll go waaaay deeper than that.

Don't worry I'am not started yet.. I am just trying to clean the area we'll dive.
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28-09-2011, 11:07 AM
 
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
(28-09-2011 10:47 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  I hope the rules are clear? I'll quit the debate after 3 strikes. I'll let your last post slip, for once...

Cowboy decides to get himself a wife – goes to town, gets a bride and starts taking her back to the ranch.

On the way back the mule stumbles and the cowboy says: “one”

A little while later the mule stumbles again and the cowboy says: “two”.

When the mule stumbles the third time, the cowboy shoots it dead.

His new wife is furious, shrieking on top of her longs at her husband.

The cowboy calmly say: “one”.


I think I and the padre are past 3 now -- if I still reply to him, it will be due to excruciating boredom. I have had my cheap fun, I will let others at it. It is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Big Grin
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28-09-2011, 11:07 AM
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
Quote:The problem is, you wait miracles, while even prophets cant show miracles by theirselves except the times God wanted.

God says, in haven whenever somebody prays he says "thank you" after that pray because he gets the thing he prayed immediately.

But we have to realize that, we are here (on the earth) to prove that we are good enough to go to haven.
Therefore in here the only pray you can, is working working and working. The people who is working cleverly and hardly they get what they want in this world. However they lost it when they die, the most intelligent workers are working for eternal life and spend their power to that ( being good to people and being loyal to God)


Strike 1: spewing of religious crap without proof or argumentation.

You're off to a rocky start, mate...

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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28-09-2011, 11:16 AM
 
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
(28-09-2011 10:59 AM)fatihbarut Wrote:  Therefore in here the only pray you can, is working working and working.

Wait a minute! Wait a minute!

He did use the word "Therefore", so his arguments must be logical after all.

I am saved! I am saved!

Heart

Quote:( being good to people and being loyal to God)

I can't help myself -- I found this gem.

How can I be good to people AND be loyal to a god who is so nasty to them?

CONTRADICTION!!!

Steam shooting out of my ears -- I may not be saved after all!
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28-09-2011, 11:31 AM
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
(28-09-2011 11:07 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  I think I and the padre are past 3 now -- if I still reply to him, it will be due to excruciating boredom. I have had my cheap fun, I will let others at it. It is like shooting fish in a barrel.

You're right. I just wanted to try this tactic for once. I know it's hopeless as he's clearly deluded beyond the point of perversion.

We're lucky grammar nazi cat hasn't shown up yet... OH SHIT

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"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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28-09-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
Do I even need to troll this guy cause he seems to be doing it by himself which honestly doesn't surprise me.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! I suppose I do need to say something intelligent.

The idea of there being only a single religion from the beginning is pure foolishness. Anybody can look at history from any country and realize this.

Advice for future..."saving". Know who you're up against because that kind of low level stupidity only works in pre-school and even then only sometimes.

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28-09-2011, 01:06 PM
RE: First things First, Proving Existance of God
I wonder if you are going to read the responses...

The answer to this post is quite simple:
Begging the question "I see God all around so he exists"

Sorry...
Heard that one before.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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