Fishing and life.
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30-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Fishing and life.
Ive been doing a lot of fishing recently.... I caught my biggest common carp yesterday at 8.4 Lbs.

Whilst sat on the bank I was looking at the maggots I was using as bait. In there own unique way they are struggling for survival with an awareness to life only a maggot could comprehend....born and bred simply for the purpose of being fed to fish. I am unable to say wether the maggot feels fear or pain, wether it has the potential for this or if our undertsanding of these two things would be the same as for us... but when I pierce them onto my hook they react to it in their own way.

The fish in the lake are doing their own thing... they too are surviving the best way they can and they mooch about looking for sustenance, existing a lot simpler compared to us.... but nevertheless existing in their own and only way they know how.

Nom nom nom nom no.... the piece of food they were eating has a hook in it and dependant on the catch the hook could be in their mouth, down their gullet or in their body. People used to believe that fish couldnt feel pain but it is possibly more complex...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_fish ..... even so I fight the fish until it is too tired and then I bring it in... pulling it outwards into a completely alien, hostile and eventually deadly enviroment.

Maybe more of a "reason" could be given to "Justify" catching the fish if I actually ate it. Instead I do it for "pleasure" and generally imprison the fish for a few hours in my keep net.

I dont like animal cruelty. When I hear about it or see it I get angry and reactionary. Yet I am faced with the "morality" of my actions and this will potentially shape my outcome.... and differing on my perceptions of "good" and "bad" I could potentially end up feeling "guilt" occasionally over what I do.

How many moral dilemmas do we face everyday and automatically "judge" in a split second on how to react almost sub-consciously and consciously at times???

What difference does it make and what do all the words mean other than the meaning that you yourself give them on the bigger scale??? Some people try to use them to describe and justify "life" (its reason, how to do it, what will happen/judgement etc etc) yet these words... whilst yes being of a kind of paramount importance to the individual/s on earth... on the bigger scale in the confines of infinite space our words dont really seem to mean a lot.

When we go inwards to the world of quantum mechanics the words are also inadequate to describe what is happening.

These huge things are part of us yet this kind of "nilhism" can only exist in my head, it cannot be applied to "life"

Who are we to judge the universe..... and what fate of the maggot???

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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30-10-2012, 12:22 PM
RE: Fishing and life.
I loved fishing as a child. I used to live on a big lake full of fish, including big fat carp, in Tennessee. In fact, I fished so much that I finally got tired of it. I did it occasionally when I went back to visit my parents, but the last time I fished was years ago. I've pointed out on another thread that, being a pussy for animals, I no longer fish. I see no "sport" in sport fishing or hunting. The more and more I learn about animal psychology, behavior, and biology, the more guilt I have for fishing or eating meat. Yet, I realize humans and our ape cousins are predators that have been eating meat for millions of years. I could never be a vegetarian unless food chemists were able to produce a readily available replacement--something cheap that could be purchased in both restaurants and grocery stores--that tasted like the real thing. That's not going to happen anytime soon, so I'll keep on eating meat. I'm just glad I personally don't have to catch, clean, and cook the animals myself.
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30-10-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Fishing and life.
I love to fish. The first time my dad took us fishing we were quite small, and he put my worm on first, and I slapped the line in the water. Before anyone knew what was happening, while he was still putting my brother's bait on their hooks, a huge snapping turtle chowed on my line, almost yanked me out of the boat. So he had to go find someone to cut off the turtle, (he gave it to them to make soup). Then I stuck my line back in, and sat there ... nothing. Finally, I got bored, and pulled up the line. In pulling up the line, the hook got caught on the side of a nice sized Northern Pike, ( 5 lbs ??)and it started flipping over and over, in circles, (like they do), and it wrapped itself in the line and caught itself for me. I knew I was born to fish. Tongue

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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30-10-2012, 12:52 PM
RE: Fishing and life.
I used to love fishing. I always felt bad for the fish a would let them go. I enjoyed the peace and quiet of it.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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30-10-2012, 07:05 PM
RE: Fishing and life.
Fishing is boring. Drinking Beverage

Like, beyond watching paint dry or grass grow boring.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-10-2012, 03:06 AM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2012 01:15 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Fishing and life.
I think, at the heart of it, you are getting at whether it is okay to harm innocent creatures for the mere enjoyment of fishing. This is a fine question to ask. Fishermen will often rationalize by saying things like "It's just a fish/bait" meaning it is of little moral value because we are so much more important, or they will say "Fish can't feel the pain" which they may. Well, the real question, in my opinion, is where do you draw the line? I don't know many people that would bat an eye at the thought of squishing a mosquito, or a fly. Are they even less valuable than the fish? From my observation humans tend to place a higher value on life that is more complex. This is why Spain has given some civil rights to primates other than humans, but you aren't going to find any law anywhere that prohibits you from squishing that bug. Ultimately, I don't worry about it too much. I have more important things to ponder, things that directly affect my daily life. There's my two cents.

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31-10-2012, 06:44 AM
RE: Fishing and life.
Dammit, bemore, you're doing it wrong. Big Grin

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31-10-2012, 08:54 AM
RE: Fishing and life.
(31-10-2012 03:06 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is why Spain has given so civil rights to primates other than humans,

Hmm, are you sure Spain is the best country to use as an example? Wink I mean, I really can't wait for the stupid EU to finally put their foot down and ban bullfighting. Tradition my ass!

For the record - I try not to kill even insects if I can avoid it (maybe not mosquitoes, though, those little buggers are killers... well, not where I live, but still...), I would throw them out of the house (or, in the case of a spider, ask someone else to do it). You could've gone even more basic, though - how about viruses and bacteria - isn't it wrong to kill them too?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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31-10-2012, 01:19 PM
RE: Fishing and life.
(31-10-2012 08:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 03:06 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is why Spain has given so civil rights to primates other than humans,

Hmm, are you sure Spain is the best country to use as an example? Wink I mean, I really can't wait for the stupid EU to finally put their foot down and ban bullfighting. Tradition my ass!

Actually I believe that strengthens my ideas on it. Primates are more complex, and more intelligent that bulls. As for bullfighting? Meh, I don't care. If it were chimp fighting, I would have more reservations.

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31-10-2012, 01:25 PM
RE: Fishing and life.
(31-10-2012 01:19 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(31-10-2012 08:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  Hmm, are you sure Spain is the best country to use as an example? Wink I mean, I really can't wait for the stupid EU to finally put their foot down and ban bullfighting. Tradition my ass!

Actually I believe that strengthens my ideas on it. Primates are more complex, and more intelligent that bulls. As for bullfighting? Meh, I don't care. If it were chimp fighting, I would have more reservations.

I'll give you that - it does strengthen your point.

Still, bullfighting must die a quick and violent death (and if it takes one or several hundred of its practitioners and fans with it, I won't mind... torture is not acceptable under any circumstances, deriving pleasure from it - well, I don't think I have words in all the languages I speak, to express how much more unacceptable it is)

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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