Five Stages of Grief
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20-10-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(20-10-2015 12:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-10-2015 06:21 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Which doesn't require anything other than chemistry, natch.

There is still no need, or even evidence, for a god's direction in this.


You keep saying this.

You also keep failing to substantiate it.


You have no evidence for the existence of a "divine spark". You do not even have a coherent definition of "divine spark".


Even entirely discounting natural selection, given enough time and opportunity, any chance, no matter how small, will crop up.

You really don't seem to understand this whole probability thing.


There is no such thing as irreducible complexity.


You really, really don't.

Of course there's such a thing as irreducible complexity. You yourself have failed to explain how life "simply" formed via random processes--as have the scientists, believers or not, of this present day. Because it's irreducibly complex.

Yet that's an assumption.

You can be granted the, you haven't fount out how life formed to specifics via these processes.... yet you don't know that it is because it's irreducibly complex. You keep adding elements like IT SHOULD be done by know or it CANT be figured out... based on nothing but proclamation without any knowledge of the validity of that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-10-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(20-10-2015 12:38 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(20-10-2015 12:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Of course there's such a thing as irreducible complexity. You yourself have failed to explain how life "simply" formed via random processes--as have the scientists, believers or not, of this present day. Because it's irreducibly complex.

Yet that's an assumption.

You can be granted the, you haven't fount out how life formed to specifics via these processes.... yet you don't know that it is because it's irreducibly complex. You keep adding elements like IT SHOULD be done by know or it CANT be figured out... based on nothing but proclamation without any knowledge of the validity of that.

It's not a declaration, it's a fact that with all our advanced knowledge of chemistry, we should be able to put the elements (literal) elements into play.

Maybe here's a better way to look at it... we can use forensic tools to recreate a crime scene, or a mummy to a Pharoah, or fill in parts of a missing skeleton. We should be able to replicate the random factors that turned things FROM A LOWER STATE TO A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH HIGHER STATE OF ORDER, AGAINST ENTROPY.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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21-10-2015, 12:25 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2015 12:28 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(21-10-2015 12:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(20-10-2015 12:38 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yet that's an assumption.

You can be granted the, you haven't fount out how life formed to specifics via these processes.... yet you don't know that it is because it's irreducibly complex. You keep adding elements like IT SHOULD be done by know or it CANT be figured out... based on nothing but proclamation without any knowledge of the validity of that.

It's not a declaration, it's a fact that with all our advanced knowledge of chemistry, we should be able to put the elements (literal) elements into play.

Maybe here's a better way to look at it... we can use forensic tools to recreate a crime scene, or a mummy to a Pharoah, or fill in parts of a missing skeleton. We should be able to replicate the random factors that turned things FROM A LOWER STATE TO A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH HIGHER STATE OF ORDER, AGAINST ENTROPY.

That's not a fact.. you're implicating WE SHOULD.

With all of our advanced knowledge of chemistry and thousands of other fields, we don't know for shit what we SHOULD or SHOULDN'T know about things in these fields with the knowledge/technology of these fields. That's why innovation and new discoveries can happy so often across the board in the world, because we don't know what we have on our hands in any field to the level of knowing what we should or shouldn't have discovered at this stage.

You just are too foolishly committed to it to ignore how any claim of what we "should" know is an assumption. It bleeds out ignorance in every possible way. With aggressively willful ignorance with the immaturity of someone who thinks their sports team SHOULD have the best players because they DESERVE it for being loyal fans to the team.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-10-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(21-10-2015 12:25 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 12:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It's not a declaration, it's a fact that with all our advanced knowledge of chemistry, we should be able to put the elements (literal) elements into play.

Maybe here's a better way to look at it... we can use forensic tools to recreate a crime scene, or a mummy to a Pharoah, or fill in parts of a missing skeleton. We should be able to replicate the random factors that turned things FROM A LOWER STATE TO A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH HIGHER STATE OF ORDER, AGAINST ENTROPY.

That's not a fact.. you're implicating WE SHOULD.

With all of our advanced knowledge of chemistry and thousands of other fields, we don't know for shit what we SHOULD or SHOULDN'T know about things in these fields with the knowledge/technology of these fields. That's why innovation and new discoveries can happy so often across the board in the world, because we don't know what we have on our hands in any field to the level of knowing what we should or shouldn't have discovered at this stage.

You just are too foolishly committed to it to ignore how any claim of what we "should" know is an assumption. It bleeds out ignorance in every possible way. With aggressively willful ignorance with the immaturity of someone who thinks their sports team SHOULD have the best players because they DESERVE it for being loyal fans to the team.

Clyde,

This and another thread, where you "don't know" that "In the beginning God created" indicates what I expect at TTA. No matter what I say, think or do about anything, God or not, I'm considered wrong or off base.

What we should know and do know is how to reverse engineer literally millions of things including organic compounds. Life is irreducibly complex for beings on our order of intelligence, technology, computing and chemistry. "Get over it" and get on with God in your life.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-10-2015, 03:55 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(22-10-2015 01:43 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 12:25 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's not a fact.. you're implicating WE SHOULD.

With all of our advanced knowledge of chemistry and thousands of other fields, we don't know for shit what we SHOULD or SHOULDN'T know about things in these fields with the knowledge/technology of these fields. That's why innovation and new discoveries can happy so often across the board in the world, because we don't know what we have on our hands in any field to the level of knowing what we should or shouldn't have discovered at this stage.

You just are too foolishly committed to it to ignore how any claim of what we "should" know is an assumption. It bleeds out ignorance in every possible way. With aggressively willful ignorance with the immaturity of someone who thinks their sports team SHOULD have the best players because they DESERVE it for being loyal fans to the team.

Clyde,

This and another thread, where you "don't know" that "In the beginning God created" indicates what I expect at TTA. No matter what I say, think or do about anything, God or not, I'm considered wrong or off base.

What we should know and do know is how to reverse engineer literally millions of things including organic compounds. Life is irreducibly complex for beings on our order of intelligence, technology, computing and chemistry. "Get over it" and get on with God in your life.

No wonder you keep getting that. It's because you don't understand logical thought.

Quote:Life is irreducibly complex for beings on our order of intelligence, technology, computing and chemistry.
Repeatedly stating a premise without a sliver of evidence or logical pattern to the reasoning in it is just a baseless assumption.

You want people to get God in their life? oh gee what a nice sensible motivating factor. If you wanted truth about said god or ANYTHING, you should figure out assumptions lead to faulty conclusions. I guess when it comes to the ways to discover knowledge and logic, you're in the denial stage.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-10-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(22-10-2015 03:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 01:43 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Clyde,

This and another thread, where you "don't know" that "In the beginning God created" indicates what I expect at TTA. No matter what I say, think or do about anything, God or not, I'm considered wrong or off base.

What we should know and do know is how to reverse engineer literally millions of things including organic compounds. Life is irreducibly complex for beings on our order of intelligence, technology, computing and chemistry. "Get over it" and get on with God in your life.

No wonder you keep getting that. It's because you don't understand logical thought.

Quote:Life is irreducibly complex for beings on our order of intelligence, technology, computing and chemistry.
Repeatedly stating a premise without a sliver of evidence or logical pattern to the reasoning in it is just a baseless assumption.

You want people to get God in their life? oh gee what a nice sensible motivating factor. If you wanted truth about said god or ANYTHING, you should figure out assumptions lead to faulty conclusions. I guess when it comes to the ways to discover knowledge and logic, you're in the denial stage.

Actually I think it is simple:

You and all the atheists of TTA are 100% sure that we do not quite know the processes that created life, but are also 100% sure that life was not implanted here by intelligent design or intelligent designers. How did you come by this special knowledge?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-10-2015, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2015 12:10 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(23-10-2015 11:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 03:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  No wonder you keep getting that. It's because you don't understand logical thought.

Repeatedly stating a premise without a sliver of evidence or logical pattern to the reasoning in it is just a baseless assumption.

You want people to get God in their life? oh gee what a nice sensible motivating factor. If you wanted truth about said god or ANYTHING, you should figure out assumptions lead to faulty conclusions. I guess when it comes to the ways to discover knowledge and logic, you're in the denial stage.

Actually I think it is simple:

You and all the atheists of TTA are 100% sure that we do not quite know the processes that created life, but are also 100% sure that life was not implanted here by intelligent design or intelligent designers. How did you come by this special knowledge?

That would be another inaccurate statement.

You can keep making assumptions over and over again if you want but it's not going to lead you to any conclusions or worthwhile communication if it's all you do. Or you could stop that and take things for as they are and not conclude you know X & Y or simply what another person claims. Instead one can learn ways to uncover what a person thinks through this interesting method of communication.

(I guess in case you don't quite get it I should make it clear, there is no definitive stance of me and some others that one is 100% sure on such statements. I am in no way 100% sure life isn't implanted by intelligent designers)

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23-10-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(23-10-2015 11:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Actually I think it is simple:

You and all the atheists of TTA are 100% sure that we do not quite know the processes that created life, but are also 100% sure that life was not How did you come by this special knowledge?

Well, it can't be all the atheists of TTA being 100% sure, because I am not sure that life wasn't implanted here by intelligent design or intelligent designers. I just don't believe so. I'll be happy to believe it when I see the proof.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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26-10-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(23-10-2015 12:06 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(23-10-2015 11:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Actually I think it is simple:

You and all the atheists of TTA are 100% sure that we do not quite know the processes that created life, but are also 100% sure that life was not implanted here by intelligent design or intelligent designers. How did you come by this special knowledge?

That would be another inaccurate statement.

You can keep making assumptions over and over again if you want but it's not going to lead you to any conclusions or worthwhile communication if it's all you do. Or you could stop that and take things for as they are and not conclude you know X & Y or simply what another person claims. Instead one can learn ways to uncover what a person thinks through this interesting method of communication.

(I guess in case you don't quite get it I should make it clear, there is no definitive stance of me and some others that one is 100% sure on such statements. I am in no way 100% sure life isn't implanted by intelligent designers)

Of COURSE you are, because we cannot infinitely regress with Earth life planted by aliens planted by aliens planted by... without either eventually coming to creation/ID or natural, random processes.

You can say you believe in space seed but don't tell me you think God created the seeders!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-10-2015, 08:05 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(20-10-2015 12:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Of course there's such a thing as irreducible complexity.

No.

(20-10-2015 12:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You yourself have failed to explain how life "simply" formed via random processes--as have the scientists, believers or not, of this present day.

Both false, in the sense that we understand much more of it than you are willing to admit, and irrelevant, as this does not establish the existence of irreducible complexity.

(21-10-2015 12:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It's not a declaration, it's a fact that with all our advanced knowledge of chemistry, we should be able to put the elements (literal) elements into play.

That does not follow. We understand physics, chemistry, and computation. We are not necessarily capable of building computers out of literally any substance, even though it is technically possible, and we have practical limitations on what characteristics the computers we do create have.

You do not seem to grasp the difference between theory and practice. Theory is easy. Practice, more often than not, is exceptionally hard - but this does not in any way invalidate the theory.

(21-10-2015 12:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Maybe here's a better way to look at it... we can use forensic tools to recreate a crime scene, or a mummy to a Pharoah, or fill in parts of a missing skeleton. We should be able to replicate the random factors that turned things FROM A LOWER STATE TO A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH HIGHER STATE OF ORDER, AGAINST ENTROPY.

"We can build planes to fly across the ocean. We should be able to put a colony on Alpha Centauri."

You also don't understand entropy or how it applies to Earth, as per usual for believers in intelligent design. The second law of thermodynamics that entropy must increase in total over a closed system.

Earth is not a closed system.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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