Five Stages of Grief
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04-09-2015, 01:33 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(04-09-2015 01:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 09:42 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  You do realize that archaeology has long since had the ability to tell when this happened, yes?

In the case of Jericho, it did not. This was, in fact, one of the things that the explicitly Christian archaeologist Kathleen Kenyon was actively searching for during her excavation.

It was not there.

Again, and I apologize for parodying the classical position, was there a sign "Welcome to Jericho. Population 6,000." How was the location of Jericho fixed? If it was the biblical Jericho, do you understand the problems inherent in a dig on a site that has multiple builds and rebuilds?

You do know that archaeology deals with cities having multiple rebuilds over historical periods frequently in that way right? That's not some quizzical situation that throws the field for a loop.

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04-09-2015, 02:06 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(04-09-2015 01:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Again, and I apologize for parodying the classical position, was there a sign "Welcome to Jericho. Population 6,000." How was the location of Jericho fixed? If it was the biblical Jericho, do you understand the problems inherent in a dig on a site that has multiple builds and rebuilds?

Yes. So did the archaeologists in charge of the dig site.

I have already linked to the book which contains the full, relevant information available earlier in the thread. You can read that if you want to know more.

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04-09-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(04-09-2015 01:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Again, and I apologize for parodying the classical position, was there a sign "Welcome to Jericho. Population 6,000." How was the location of Jericho fixed? If it was the biblical Jericho, do you understand the problems inherent in a dig on a site that has multiple builds and rebuilds?

OK, great, let's say it's not the Biblical Jericho.

There is now zero evidence for the Biblical story. Well done. Thumbsup

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09-09-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
Repeating, this is not merely a city covered over, it's a city with walls, that like Jerusalem, have been built and torn down and rebuilt. The notion that God's so cool the people left the walls and the materials that were in them lie forever to commemorate the falling of the Jericho wall is an aberrant notion IMHO. The more so since anyone reading the book of the story (Joshua) even semi-carefully would see that heathen things were utterly destroyed.

Of course, atheists are quick to avoid pointing to legitimate signs that we ourselves bear marks of creation in the creation itself. On another thread, we can read from atheists who are certain we evolved to have the first life forms via random, mechanistic processes--processes that many scientists in many laboratories cannot duplicate despite years of testing.

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09-09-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(09-09-2015 12:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Repeating, this is not merely a city covered over, it's a city with walls, that like Jerusalem, have been built and torn down and rebuilt. The notion that God's so cool the people left the walls and the materials that were in them lie forever to commemorate the falling of the Jericho wall is an aberrant notion IMHO. The more so since anyone reading the book of the story (Joshua) even semi-carefully would see that heathen things were utterly destroyed.

...Your point being?

There is still no archaeological evidence in favor of the Jacob story whatsoever.

(09-09-2015 12:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Of course, atheists are quick to avoid pointing to legitimate signs that we ourselves bear marks of creation in the creation itself. On another thread, we can read from atheists who are certain we evolved to have the first life forms via random, mechanistic processes--processes that many scientists in many laboratories cannot duplicate despite years of testing.

Because it's complicated, not because it's impossible.

Literally everything that we know about biology, chemistry, physics, and pretty much every other scientific field you care to name points towards abiogenesis - and, despite your assertion to the contrary, we have actually made great strides towards replicating it in a laboratory setting. Saying "you haven't done it so obviously you're wrong" is analogous to someone telling the Wright brothers that flight is impossible in 1902.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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11-09-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(09-09-2015 12:18 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Repeating, this is not merely a city covered over, it's a city with walls, that like Jerusalem, have been built and torn down and rebuilt. The notion that God's so cool the people left the walls and the materials that were in them lie forever to commemorate the falling of the Jericho wall is an aberrant notion IMHO. The more so since anyone reading the book of the story (Joshua) even semi-carefully would see that heathen things were utterly destroyed.

...Your point being?

There is still no archaeological evidence in favor of the Jacob story whatsoever.

(09-09-2015 12:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Of course, atheists are quick to avoid pointing to legitimate signs that we ourselves bear marks of creation in the creation itself. On another thread, we can read from atheists who are certain we evolved to have the first life forms via random, mechanistic processes--processes that many scientists in many laboratories cannot duplicate despite years of testing.

Because it's complicated, not because it's impossible.

Literally everything that we know about biology, chemistry, physics, and pretty much every other scientific field you care to name points towards abiogenesis - and, despite your assertion to the contrary, we have actually made great strides towards replicating it in a laboratory setting. Saying "you haven't done it so obviously you're wrong" is analogous to someone telling the Wright brothers that flight is impossible in 1902.

It's the Joshua, not Jacob, story. I never said there was archaeological evidence promoting the walls fell down story. I'm merely arguing against evidence you claim refutes the story.

If we haven't been able to bring elements and compounds together to form life in a controlled-condition laboratory environment via intelligent design, how would you or anyone know if we've made "great strides" toward doing so? The correct analogy is the Wright brothers saying they have powered flight when they haven't built a gliding object yet, only bicycles.

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11-09-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(09-09-2015 12:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Repeating, this is not merely a city covered over, it's a city with walls, that like Jerusalem, have been built and torn down and rebuilt. The notion that God's so cool the people left the walls and the materials that were in them lie forever to commemorate the falling of the Jericho wall is an aberrant notion IMHO. The more so since anyone reading the book of the story (Joshua) even semi-carefully would see that heathen things were utterly destroyed.

Of course, atheists are quick to avoid pointing to legitimate signs that we ourselves bear marks of creation in the creation itself. On another thread, we can read from atheists who are certain we evolved to have the first life forms via random, mechanistic processes--processes that many scientists in many laboratories cannot duplicate despite years of testing.

That's what archaeologists discover in other places too... somehow you think "walls" is some profound unique thing to discovering layers within a city. That's far from the case they even do it at other locations in Jerusalem like towns they've found excavations of that have buildings that appear to have been early christian communal homes due to the early christian symbols being engraved there.

You excavate and find walls and crumbled parts that show layers of times when they were rebuilt in different eras and change in cultural artifacts over time as layers are excavated. It's the same as other major cities like Troy as well. Your case that, they had walls is a really strange comment. Do you have any other comments or knowledge about this other than, some snark comment against cool god or something else not related to details of how archaeology is investigated?

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11-09-2015, 12:26 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I never said there was archaeological evidence promoting the walls fell down story.

(20-08-2015 08:08 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I will have to find the statements online I read where not only was Jericho excavated but it was found to be unique in that the walls had collapsed outward, not inward as would be suggested by an enemy's incursion. God took down the walls as if from a mighty hurricane on high.

(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm merely arguing against evidence you claim refutes the story.

And not doing particularly well.

(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If we haven't been able to bring elements and compounds together to form life in a controlled-condition laboratory environment via intelligent design

Nice try, but no. This isn't intelligent design.

Chemistry works the same way whether or not a human puts the chemicals together.

(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  how would you or anyone know if we've made "great strides" toward doing so?

Try Google.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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16-09-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(11-09-2015 10:06 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Repeating, this is not merely a city covered over, it's a city with walls, that like Jerusalem, have been built and torn down and rebuilt. The notion that God's so cool the people left the walls and the materials that were in them lie forever to commemorate the falling of the Jericho wall is an aberrant notion IMHO. The more so since anyone reading the book of the story (Joshua) even semi-carefully would see that heathen things were utterly destroyed.

Of course, atheists are quick to avoid pointing to legitimate signs that we ourselves bear marks of creation in the creation itself. On another thread, we can read from atheists who are certain we evolved to have the first life forms via random, mechanistic processes--processes that many scientists in many laboratories cannot duplicate despite years of testing.

That's what archaeologists discover in other places too... somehow you think "walls" is some profound unique thing to discovering layers within a city. That's far from the case they even do it at other locations in Jerusalem like towns they've found excavations of that have buildings that appear to have been early christian communal homes due to the early christian symbols being engraved there.

You excavate and find walls and crumbled parts that show layers of times when they were rebuilt in different eras and change in cultural artifacts over time as layers are excavated. It's the same as other major cities like Troy as well. Your case that, they had walls is a really strange comment. Do you have any other comments or knowledge about this other than, some snark comment against cool god or something else not related to details of how archaeology is investigated?

You are actually agreeing with me and perhaps haven't read this whole thread.

I'm arguing the notion that finding walls down, not up, surrounding an excavation at Jericho proves how Jericho, like all ancient cities, was walled, and is not proof against God knocking down the walls rather than some invading force.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-09-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(11-09-2015 12:26 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I never said there was archaeological evidence promoting the walls fell down story.

(20-08-2015 08:08 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I will have to find the statements online I read where not only was Jericho excavated but it was found to be unique in that the walls had collapsed outward, not inward as would be suggested by an enemy's incursion. God took down the walls as if from a mighty hurricane on high.

(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm merely arguing against evidence you claim refutes the story.

And not doing particularly well.

(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If we haven't been able to bring elements and compounds together to form life in a controlled-condition laboratory environment via intelligent design

Nice try, but no. This isn't intelligent design.

Chemistry works the same way whether or not a human puts the chemicals together.

(11-09-2015 09:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  how would you or anyone know if we've made "great strides" toward doing so?

Try Google.

You are again making a straw man argument. It is an experiment done by intelligent experiment designers, and even they cannot demonstrate how something intelligent or random can do it!

And the very citation you linked to states "According to one version of the 'RNA world' hypothesis this polymer was RNA, but attempts to provide experimental support for this have failed." The pyrimidine ribonucleotides are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what is needed for the building blocks of life, let alone life.

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