Five Stages of Grief
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16-09-2015, 11:40 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(16-09-2015 11:05 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are again making a straw man argument. It is an experiment done by intelligent experiment designers, and even they cannot demonstrate how something intelligent or random can do it!

You heard it here first, folks. Having a human being as the one to mix two chemicals together alters the rules of chemistry.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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16-09-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(16-09-2015 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 10:06 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's what archaeologists discover in other places too... somehow you think "walls" is some profound unique thing to discovering layers within a city. That's far from the case they even do it at other locations in Jerusalem like towns they've found excavations of that have buildings that appear to have been early christian communal homes due to the early christian symbols being engraved there.

You excavate and find walls and crumbled parts that show layers of times when they were rebuilt in different eras and change in cultural artifacts over time as layers are excavated. It's the same as other major cities like Troy as well. Your case that, they had walls is a really strange comment. Do you have any other comments or knowledge about this other than, some snark comment against cool god or something else not related to details of how archaeology is investigated?

You are actually agreeing with me and perhaps haven't read this whole thread.

I'm arguing the notion that finding walls down, not up, surrounding an excavation at Jericho proves how Jericho, like all ancient cities, was walled, and is not proof against God knocking down the walls rather than some invading force.

Your argument was about there being problems because it had walls that are built and rebuilt... but archaeologically and evidence based that's not the case.

They can find out a whole lot of details about the walls and cases, and evidence they have found don't support an attack that brought down walls. It shows evidence of the Canaanite culture being the majority previously and through cultural shifting, but not battling of city, the minority Hebrews began to take over the city culturally in the social manner.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-09-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(16-09-2015 11:40 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 11:05 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are again making a straw man argument. It is an experiment done by intelligent experiment designers, and even they cannot demonstrate how something intelligent or random can do it!

You heard it here first, folks. Having a human being as the one to mix two chemicals together alters the rules of chemistry.

You don't understand. We know the rules of chemistry. Utilizing these rules, we are nowhere near synthesizing life or its basic building blocks. This implies that is takes an agent or catalyst beyond mere random chemical reactions.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-09-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(16-09-2015 11:50 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are actually agreeing with me and perhaps haven't read this whole thread.

I'm arguing the notion that finding walls down, not up, surrounding an excavation at Jericho proves how Jericho, like all ancient cities, was walled, and is not proof against God knocking down the walls rather than some invading force.

Your argument was about there being problems because it had walls that are built and rebuilt... but archaeologically and evidence based that's not the case.

They can find out a whole lot of details about the walls and cases, and evidence they have found don't support an attack that brought down walls. It shows evidence of the Canaanite culture being the majority previously and through cultural shifting, but not battling of city, the minority Hebrews began to take over the city culturally in the social manner.

What evidence would you cite to prove your thesis? Example: Finding two older Canaanite articles and then two newer Hebrew articles neither prove nor disprove a battle or army/surrender.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-09-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(22-09-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You don't understand.

I really do.

(22-09-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  We know the rules of chemistry. Utilizing these rules, we are nowhere near synthesizing life or its basic building blocks.

Save all the remarkable steps that we have taken towards this, you mean. The steps that you just tried to hand-wave away with "that's intelligent design", as if anyone here were silly enough to fall for it.

(22-09-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  This implies that is takes an agent or catalyst beyond mere random chemical reactions.

No, it doesn't.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(22-09-2015 10:23 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You don't understand.

I really do.

(22-09-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  We know the rules of chemistry. Utilizing these rules, we are nowhere near synthesizing life or its basic building blocks.

Save all the remarkable steps that we have taken towards this, you mean. The steps that you just tried to hand-wave away with "that's intelligent design", as if anyone here were silly enough to fall for it.

(22-09-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  This implies that is takes an agent or catalyst beyond mere random chemical reactions.

No, it doesn't.

I think you are conflating "remarkable steps" with "solving an immensely, immeasurably complex and thorny problem".

I think you might perhaps misunderstand the mechanism involved. I was told as a child long ago how basic elements and compounds randomly interacted for eons until simple life appeared in a sort of magical/wishful thinking theory. However, a "simple" one-celled animal has things going on inside it on the order of complexity of the city of New York including all its people, animals, infrastructure, vehicles...

...Please state in layman's terms what you feel the remarkable steps are we've made to understanding the origin(s) of all life, and how and why if we've made remarkable steps we are unable to complete the synthesis of life or at least basic life cell processes in a laboratory environment.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-09-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I think you are conflating "remarkable steps" with "solving an immensely, immeasurably complex and thorny problem".

No.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I think you might perhaps misunderstand the mechanism involved.

No.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I was told as a child long ago how basic elements and compounds randomly interacted for eons until simple life appeared in a sort of magical/wishful thinking theory. However, a "simple" one-celled animal has things going on inside it on the order of complexity of the city of New York including all its people, animals, infrastructure, vehicles...

That's wonderful.

It's still just chemicals.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...Please state in layman's terms what you feel the remarkable steps are we've made to understanding the origin(s) of all life

I have already given you several examples, which you are now pretending not to have seen.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  and how and why if we've made remarkable steps we are unable to complete the synthesis of life or at least basic life cell processes in a laboratory environment.

Because it is complex.

You will note that "complex" is not equivalent to "impossible".

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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25-09-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(24-09-2015 01:34 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I think you are conflating "remarkable steps" with "solving an immensely, immeasurably complex and thorny problem".

No.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I think you might perhaps misunderstand the mechanism involved.

No.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I was told as a child long ago how basic elements and compounds randomly interacted for eons until simple life appeared in a sort of magical/wishful thinking theory. However, a "simple" one-celled animal has things going on inside it on the order of complexity of the city of New York including all its people, animals, infrastructure, vehicles...

That's wonderful.

It's still just chemicals.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...Please state in layman's terms what you feel the remarkable steps are we've made to understanding the origin(s) of all life

I have already given you several examples, which you are now pretending not to have seen.

(24-09-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  and how and why if we've made remarkable steps we are unable to complete the synthesis of life or at least basic life cell processes in a laboratory environment.

Because it is complex.

You will note that "complex" is not equivalent to "impossible".

You did not give quality examples verifying your claims. I did both see them and respond. They were the equivalent of "we randomly got two toothpicks to rest upon one another, so we're almost done watching the Empire State Building get created without interference."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-09-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(25-09-2015 08:26 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You did not give quality examples verifying your claims. I did both see them and respond.

By claiming that they were "intelligent design", yes. Which is both incorrect and very silly.

(25-09-2015 08:26 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  They were the equivalent of "we randomly got two toothpicks to rest upon one another, so we're almost done watching the Empire State Building get created without interference."

This is a more understandable objection, but it is still just the argument from personal incredulity fallacy rather than an actual, coherent point being raised against the principles in play.

Not particularly compelling.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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25-09-2015, 11:03 AM
RE: Five Stages of Grief
(18-08-2015 08:49 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But no, atheists have to explain how their acceptance of Grandma is gone is somehow, oddly much better than we'll see Grandma again. How sad.
No one has to explain anything. Grandma is gone, I nor anyone else will ever see her again. However, I have many wonderful memories of her that will live on until I die as well.
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