Focusing on White
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27-08-2016, 07:54 AM
RE: Focusing on White
(27-08-2016 12:00 AM)epronovost Wrote:  @Stevil

There is no specialised White male newspaper, because White male percpective dominates the media by a landslide. Hell, even on internet you need to be especially good to avoid white men editorialists, comics or political analysts. There is no White male rugby team because white male dominate this sport by a landslide, most player, professionnal or otherwise are white. Why would we need to make a special niche for them? There is a Maori and female student award to encourage and pressure Maori and women (and especially Maori women) to perform in higher study because historically these people were denied or had limited access to higher study unlike white men (thus created a system to break this cycle). On the other hand, White men who, despite being less numerous than women since the mid 90's for the first time in history, represent around 70% of all university professors and still represent a short majority of post graduates in many first world countries (I coudn't find for New-Zeland).

We are very tolerent of White men over representation in pretty much every single sphere of society (with a few exception when it comes to nursing, child and elderly support and incarceration). While it irritates many, we live with it pretty peacefully. In resume we accept plenty of «sexist» and «racist» stuff (I wouldn't use those terms personaly), because men and women aren't equal neither are white and non whites. They can and should be equals. We want them equals. We strive to make them equals. We are getting, closer and closer to this objective and real equality might be achieve within our lifetime which would be tremedous, but we are still not there yet. This progress has to come from somewhere and it takes the form of initiative directed to enhance the social, economical, cultural and political representation and powers of those «lower» groups.

Could we create initiatives and programs directed at helping white men achieve a greater level of representation and power in the few domains where they are not in control? Yes, sure, I would propose grants offered to male students in traditionnaly women domains, more generous paternity leave, grant for white students studying non-white cultures or languages (like maori for exemple). This sort of thing.

I know for many white men who value equalitarianism this seems counter intuitive or even insulting (how can they have priviledges I don't have access to?), but considering someone has an equal doesn't necessarly make it so in the social arena. Sometimes there is centuries of systematic oppression and cultural traits and beliefs that needs to be changed for equality to become a reality.

Does it help a bit?

What you are striving for is equality of outcome instead of equality of opportunity, what you are striving is cosmetics, forced diversity of gender and race completely neglecting merit and the only diversity that really matters , an intellectual one.


What you are proposing is that current generation of white people ( white men in particular ) pays the price for some historical injustices and you perceive this to be fair but what you are saying is that the individuals who are not guilty of anything should be punished in order to compensate individuals who are , in fact, not victims of anything.
All of this because you place a collective blame for enjoying historical privileges on a group of people and than you project those privileges and consequently blame , to every individual of the said group.
Like some white kid who grew up in poverty in some trailer park is responsible or benefited in any way from slavery or from the fact that 99% of CEO's of Fortune 500 are white man , so it is now fair to exclude him from the benefits you offer to individuals who belong to groups perceived as oppressed.

This kind of collectivism that produces policies that favor or disfavor people based simply on the group , race, gender, they belong to, is detrimental. It just creates more injustice and animosity between those groups.
It also perpetuates racism and sexism when it comes to gender , even tho you probably think it's opposite.

Meh...


Few quotes from Milton Friedman


“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”


“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”

“The great virtue of a free market system is that it does not care what color people are; it does not care what their religion is; it only cares whether they can produce something you want to buy. It is the most effective system we have discovered to enable people who hate one another to deal with one another and help one another.”

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27-08-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Focusing on White
(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  What you are striving for is equality of outcome instead of equality of opportunity, what you are striving is cosmetics, forced diversity of gender and race completely neglecting merit and the only diversity that really matters , an intellectual one.

Excellent point. IMO all societies would be better if they were strict meritocracies.

However...

(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  What you are proposing is that current generation of white people ( white men in particular ) pays the price for some historical injustices and you perceive this to be fair but what you are saying is that the individuals who are not guilty of anything should be punished in order to compensate individuals who are , in fact, not victims of anything.
All of this because you place a collective blame for enjoying historical privileges on a group of people and than you project those privileges and consequently blame , to every individual of the said group.
Like some white kid who grew up in poverty in some trailer park is responsible or benefited in any way from slavery or from the fact that 99% of CEO's of Fortune 500 are white man , so it is now fair to exclude him from the benefits you offer to individuals who belong to groups perceived as oppressed.

This kind of collectivism that produces policies that favor or disfavor people based simply on the group , race, gender, they belong to, is detrimental. It just creates more injustice and animosity between those groups.
It also perpetuates racism and sexism when it comes to gender , even tho you probably think it's opposite.

Meh...

...since we aren’t starting with a “clean slate” I think it is appropriate that certain steps are taken to help provide an even playing field for all “groups” so that the society as a whole can then move forward as a true meritocracy.

Some individuals within the minority/disenfranchised groups will always and forever play the victim card and will try and manipulate the system.
Some individuals within the dominant group will always and forever place roadblocks on minoroties to help keep themselves in power or give themselves some advantage based solely on superficial attributes (gender, race, nationality).

The hard part is determining if and when the playing field has been leveled to the point that the system has become a true meritocracy, the process is ugly and sometimes downright unjust and ridiculous. Until such time there will continue to be what to one group appears as an injustice and to the other a necessity.

You had me at Milton Friedman.

(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Few quotes from Milton Friedman


“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”


“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”

“The great virtue of a free market system is that it does not care what color people are; it does not care what their religion is; it only cares whether they can produce something you want to buy. It is the most effective system we have discovered to enable people who hate one another to deal with one another and help one another.”

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-08-2016, 09:13 AM
RE: Focusing on White
(26-08-2016 06:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 06:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Maori v White is an issue in this country though and it's not at the hands of white people, it's Maori keeping the war waging.

Who was there first? I enjoy watching the indigenous population dicking with pasty little gay virgin boy invaders.




I think the other team should break out in a jitterbug or Lindy hop dance. It would confuse the war chanting team and throw them off their game. Tongue

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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27-08-2016, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2016 11:02 AM by epronovost.)
RE: Focusing on White
(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  What you are striving for is equality of outcome instead of equality of opportunity, what you are striving is cosmetics, forced diversity of gender and race completely neglecting merit and the only diversity that really matters , an intellectual one.


What you are proposing is that current generation of white people ( white men in particular ) pays the price for some historical injustices and you perceive this to be fair but what you are saying is that the individuals who are not guilty of anything should be punished in order to compensate individuals who are , in fact, not victims of anything.
All of this because you place a collective blame for enjoying historical privileges on a group of people and than you project those privileges and consequently blame , to every individual of the said group.
Like some white kid who grew up in poverty in some trailer park is responsible or benefited in any way from slavery or from the fact that 99% of CEO's of Fortune 500 are white man , so it is now fair to exclude him from the benefits you offer to individuals who belong to groups perceived as oppressed.

This kind of collectivism that produces policies that favor or disfavor people based simply on the group , race, gender, they belong to, is detrimental. It just creates more injustice and animosity between those groups.
It also perpetuates racism and sexism when it comes to gender , even tho you probably think it's opposite.

Meh...


Few quotes from Milton Friedman


“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”


“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”

“The great virtue of a free market system is that it does not care what color people are; it does not care what their religion is; it only cares whether they can produce something you want to buy. It is the most effective system we have discovered to enable people who hate one another to deal with one another and help one another.”

So if I get you correctly its fair and equal for a group to have access to a better home environment, better infrastructures, better education, more positive representation in the cultural arena, to have access to more wealth, to control de facto political and economical levers. But, its unfair to the groups who have less of everything stated above to have access to programs and initiatives to help them specifically to create better home environment, better infrastructures, better education, more positive representation in the cultural arena?

You call equality of opportunity the chances of a white men born in the higher middle class of a white men dominated country to succeed compared to a native women born in community much poorer and in country with poor representation of her gender and ethnic group? This, to me, this is like making a race in which one of the contestant has to run half the distance of the other. Can the disadvantage one win? Yes he can, but its going to much harder and require much more efforts than for the other one and thanks to the lotery of birth, it will be harder of them to develop the skills and attitudes necessary to succeed in our socio-economic system. The chances of a person born in the middle class to remain there or to improvre is station is of about 80%. The chances of a member of the lower class to improve is station is of about 25%. This is because the opportunities aren't equal. If you break down the stats by gender and race you will realise that its easier for white men to improve their station or keep it stable (should it be a good position) than for women and non-whites because proclaiming that races and genders are equal doesn't make it so. It doesn't change culture and institution, it doesn't even reduce internalise bias and no it doesn't erase the past and that's exactly what the present is made of.

What you call «meritocracy» and «equality of opportinuty» is simply the perpetuation of a competitive system which favors heavily a certain group, because in the past, this group used its economical and political power to crush the others. I can totally understand why you would consider this equality. Its not because you are a white men that you are necessarly priviledged. You can be poor, in shitty home and have access to very little good institutions and be white. You can be exactly in the same situation than any poor native person. The big difference it that when you open a newspaper or the television, you see white men well represented in all area from villain to champion. When you walk down the streets you are less likely to be harassed. When you strive to extirpate yourself from this situation you don't suffer from racial discrimination in housing or employment. Internalised bias are working to help you and not the opposite. you don't have class priviledges (probably the biggest ones in my opinion), but you still have your racial and sexual ones. These aren't big advantages per say, they won't make your trials feel that much easier, but they explain how come you succeed more easily than others in the exact same position.

In my opinion there is no such thing has equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. If there is equality, there is no difference between outcome and opportunity (or if there is one its insignificant). I don't believe that white men have anything inherent to their ethnicity and sex that makes them more likely to succeed in society than natives, blacks or women. Thus if you make the opportunity truly equal, the results will necessarly follow (of course this is true only on population level, not so much on the personnal one).

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27-08-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Focusing on White
(27-08-2016 08:27 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  What you are striving for is equality of outcome instead of equality of opportunity, what you are striving is cosmetics, forced diversity of gender and race completely neglecting merit and the only diversity that really matters , an intellectual one.

Excellent point. IMO all societies would be better if they were strict meritocracies.

However...

(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  What you are proposing is that current generation of white people ( white men in particular ) pays the price for some historical injustices and you perceive this to be fair but what you are saying is that the individuals who are not guilty of anything should be punished in order to compensate individuals who are , in fact, not victims of anything.
All of this because you place a collective blame for enjoying historical privileges on a group of people and than you project those privileges and consequently blame , to every individual of the said group.
Like some white kid who grew up in poverty in some trailer park is responsible or benefited in any way from slavery or from the fact that 99% of CEO's of Fortune 500 are white man , so it is now fair to exclude him from the benefits you offer to individuals who belong to groups perceived as oppressed.

This kind of collectivism that produces policies that favor or disfavor people based simply on the group , race, gender, they belong to, is detrimental. It just creates more injustice and animosity between those groups.
It also perpetuates racism and sexism when it comes to gender , even tho you probably think it's opposite.

Meh...

...since we aren’t starting with a “clean slate” I think it is appropriate that certain steps are taken to help provide an even playing field for all “groups” so that the society as a whole can then move forward as a true meritocracy.

Some individuals within the minority/disenfranchised groups will always and forever play the victim card and will try and manipulate the system.
Some individuals within the dominant group will always and forever place roadblocks on minoroties to help keep themselves in power or give themselves some advantage based solely on superficial attributes (gender, race, nationality).

The hard part is determining if and when the playing field has been leveled to the point that the system has become a true meritocracy, the process is ugly and sometimes downright unjust and ridiculous. Until such time there will continue to be what to one group appears as an injustice and to the other a necessity.

You had me at Milton Friedman.

(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Few quotes from Milton Friedman


“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”


“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”

“The great virtue of a free market system is that it does not care what color people are; it does not care what their religion is; it only cares whether they can produce something you want to buy. It is the most effective system we have discovered to enable people who hate one another to deal with one another and help one another.”
I completely agree with the sentiment of your post. It is just that I believe that policies that target and treat people as groups instead of individuals within the society as a whole are not a good way to create an equal playing field which is of course the end goal.
Equal playing field must be created by forcing the same rules on everybody , not by handicapping some players and favoring the others so the scoreboard looks more fair and balanced so we can present the picture of equality.

In some field results will never be balanced to our liking and they shouldn't be.
Equal representation in everything is the most vapid goal ever.
I guess we should force black basketball players to play with only one hand so the whites can be more successful. Or maybe we should give white sprinters 20 meters head start so they have a better chance of winning olympic gold. Laugh out load
How stupid that sounds, right? And yet, affirmative action and similar policies are exactly that , they just seem more morally acceptable because they "right the wrongs" from the past.
There also seems to be an assumption that blacks, or women or whoever other then white males is unable to be successful in a level playing field so they need some extra wind in their backs provided by the state.
Soft bigotry of low expectations is the right term I believe.
If anything , handouts, food stamps , welfare checks ...are what is keeping the black people in America down.
If people are not forced to rise up to the challenge , they never will.

Only way to create a fair society is to have the same rules for everybody , forget the past injustices , forget the current scoreboard , same rules for everybody and let the dice fall where they may. It will take time but it is the only way to avoid future confrontations between the groups. Walls between groups will disappear naturally if you don't prop them up constantly by defining the groups.

Policies that place and treat people as groups basically condemn those people to forever be first a member of that group and just than, if ever, members of the society as a whole.
Animosity between the groups defined in such a way is unavoidable.
Instead of all being just Americans, you are African Americans, Asian Americans , Latinos, Whites...
To me you are all just "silly 'Muricans" Laugh out load

All this said, I don't live in US , I live in all white country so I can't know with how much of a "clean slate" people start with or do whites really have some tangible advantages in their lives simply because they are white, so my perspective may not be objective when talking about situation in US.

Quote:Some individuals within the minority/disenfranchised groups will always and forever play the victim card and will try and manipulate the system.
Some individuals within the dominant group will always and forever place roadblocks on minoroties to help keep themselves in power or give themselves some advantage based solely on superficial attributes (gender, race, nationality).

Sure, but creating policies that are effective only in stopping the members of the dominant group to place the roadblocks and in the same time encourage the individuals from minority/disenfranchised groups to play the victim card is surely not the right way to go about fixing this.

Just one more interesting fact to put out here, when it comes to economy it is not whites that are most successful , it is Asians. Doesn't seem to fit the narrative that it is whites that are oh so fakn privileged and keeping everybody else down.


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27-08-2016, 11:49 AM
Focusing on White
So you're telling me white is right is not the true God manner?

Perception and majority is the driving firce of this f4ane.

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27-08-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Focusing on White
(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(27-08-2016 08:27 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Excellent point. IMO all societies would be better if they were strict meritocracies.

However...


...since we aren’t starting with a “clean slate” I think it is appropriate that certain steps are taken to help provide an even playing field for all “groups” so that the society as a whole can then move forward as a true meritocracy.

Some individuals within the minority/disenfranchised groups will always and forever play the victim card and will try and manipulate the system.
Some individuals within the dominant group will always and forever place roadblocks on minoroties to help keep themselves in power or give themselves some advantage based solely on superficial attributes (gender, race, nationality).

The hard part is determining if and when the playing field has been leveled to the point that the system has become a true meritocracy, the process is ugly and sometimes downright unjust and ridiculous. Until such time there will continue to be what to one group appears as an injustice and to the other a necessity.

You had me at Milton Friedman.
I completely agree with the sentiment of your post. It is just that I believe that policies that target and treat people as groups instead of individuals within the society as a whole are not a good way to create an equal playing field which is of course the end goal.

Agreed and this is why I said, “the process is ugly and sometimes downright unjust and ridiculous.”

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)‘Slowminded Wrote:  Equal playing field must be created by forcing the same rules on everybody , not by handicapping some players and favoring the others so the scoreboard looks more fair and balanced so we can present the picture of equality.

I think instead of handicapping I see it more as a a helping hand until such time as the playing field is level.

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)‘Slowminded Wrote:  In some field results will never be balanced to our liking and they shouldn't be.
Equal representation in everything is the most vapid goal ever.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I guess we should force black basketball players to play with only one hand so the whites can be more successful. Or maybe we should give white sprinters 20 meters head start so they have a better chance of winning olympic gold. Laugh out load
How stupid that sounds, right?

I think your analogy is off the mark, sorry. The basketball court and the track are raw meritocracies, at least they are today but it wasn’t always so. The best players play...in today’s world that is. It wasn’t so long ago that there was a Negro Baseball League, the jeers and racism heaped on Jackie Robinson still echo in the background. It was years before what is now the NBA allowed a black player to join. These barriers had to be brought down.

The best example is when President Johnson had to call in the National Guard just so black students could attend a segregated “public” school, and this isn’t ancient history, people who lived through those times are very much alive. The memory of such injustices doesn’t just go poof and dissapear in one generation, in fact that generation is still with us here in the US. I have no doubt that the minorities in your country can still remember a time...

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  And yet, affirmative action and similar policies are exactly that , they just seem more morally acceptable because they "right the wrongs" from the past.
There also seems to be an assumption that blacks, or women or whoever other then white males is unable to be successful in a level playing field so they need some extra wind in their backs provided by the state.

The only “wind” that the State is and should be providing are the laws for a fair and level playing field to continue using the analogy.

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)‘Slowminded Wrote:  Soft bigotry of low expectations is the right term I believe.
If anything , handouts, food stamps , welfare checks ...are what is keeping the black people in America down.
If people are not forced to rise up to the challenge , they never will.

Yes and no. As I said before some people will always work the system and that is no reason to stop the aid given to those who rightfully need it lest we fall into some kind of society that refuses to look after the downtrodden (my word not yours).
I have lived in such a society and no one was safe, forget enjoying the fruits of your labors.

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Only way to create a fair society is to have the same rules for everybody , forget the past injustices , forget the current scoreboard , same rules for everybody and let the dice fall where they may. It will take time but it is the only way to avoid future confrontations between the groups. Walls between groups will disappear naturally if you don’t prop them up constantly by defining the groups.

I think that because human nature is such, being that we are just a few generations removed form hunter gatherer clans, we will always favor those who are most like us to the detriment of those who are not. Unless we have safeguards in place to keep one group of clansmen (yes, I purposedly used that word) from descriminating against another the dice will always be “loaded”.

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)‘Slowminded Wrote:  Policies that place and treat people as groups basically condemn those people to forever be first a member of that group and just than, if ever, members of the society as a whole.
Animosity between the groups defined in such a way is unavoidable.
Instead of all being just Americans, you are African Americans, Asian Americans , Latinos, Whites...
To me you are all just “silly ‘Muricans” Laugh out load

That is the vision, that should be the goal.

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)‘Slowminded Wrote:  All this said, I don’t live in US , I live in all white country so I can’t know with how much of a "clean slate" people start with or do whites really have some tangible advantages in their lives simply because they are white, so my perspective may not be objective when talking about situation in US.

You really should come visit. As they say in Miami, the best part of South Florida is just how close it is to the United States. Cool

(27-08-2016 11:04 AM)‘Slowminded Wrote:  
Quote:Some individuals within the minority/disenfranchised groups will always and forever play the victim card and will try and manipulate the system.
Some individuals within the dominant group will always and forever place roadblocks on minoroties to help keep themselves in power or give themselves some advantage based solely on superficial attributes (gender, race, nationality).

Sure, but creating policies that are effective only in stopping the members of the dominant group to place the roadblocks and in the same time encourage the individuals from minority/disenfranchised groups to play the victim card is surely not the right way to go about fixing this.

You’re right, it’s not. It is an ungoing challenge and the process isn’t pretty and the causes are just below the surface as is so plainly visible with this year’s presidential elections in my country. Undecided

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-08-2016, 02:44 PM
RE: Focusing on White
A followup to my previous post to drive home the point that racism and bigotry have created enormous roadblocks for certain minorities thus allowing the “dice to fall where they may” isn’t a proper course of action...at least not yet.

‘No Vacancies’ for Blacks: How Donald Trump Got His Start, and Was First Accused of Bias
By JONATHAN MAHLER and STEVE EDERAUG. 27, 2016

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/pol...pe=article

"She seemed like the model tenant. A 33-year-old nurse who was living at the Y.W.C.A. in Harlem, she had come to rent a one-bedroom at the still-unfinished Wilshire Apartments in the Jamaica Estates neighborhood of Queens. She filled out what the rental agent remembers as a “beautiful application.” She did not even want to look at the unit.

There was just one hitch: Maxine Brown was black.

Stanley Leibowitz, the rental agent, talked to his boss, Fred C. Trump.

“I asked him what to do and he says, ‘Take the application and put it in a drawer and leave it there,’” Mr. Leibowitz, now 88, recalled in an interview.

It was late 1963 — just months before President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the landmark Civil Rights Act”

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-08-2016, 03:07 PM
RE: Focusing on White
(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  What you are striving for is equality of outcome instead of equality of opportunity, what you are striving is cosmetics, forced diversity of gender and race completely neglecting merit and the only diversity that really matters , an intellectual one.


What you are proposing is that current generation of white people ( white men in particular ) pays the price for some historical injustices and you perceive this to be fair but what you are saying is that the individuals who are not guilty of anything should be punished in order to compensate individuals who are , in fact, not victims of anything.
All of this because you place a collective blame for enjoying historical privileges on a group of people and than you project those privileges and consequently blame , to every individual of the said group.
Excellent points Slowminded

(27-08-2016 07:54 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Like some white kid who grew up in poverty in some trailer park is responsible or benefited in any way from slavery or from the fact that 99% of CEO's of Fortune 500 are white man , so it is now fair to exclude him from the benefits you offer to individuals who belong to groups perceived as oppressed.
Totally agree with you (PS in NZ the Brit's didn't enslave or conquer the Maori)

The fact is, that most white boys do not grow up to be CEOs. The vast majority don't.

Being white and male does not come with privilege. Our school teachers aren't taking us to the side and giving us special lessons so that we will get better grades than the Maori and hence more opportunity for the better jobs.
We aren't privileged because we are white. That's not it.

I went to same schools as many Maori did.
I paid attention in class and applied myself and got good grades as a result of my effort rather than as a result of the colour of my skin, I worked in the holidays and earned some income. Some Maoris at my school, they didn't apply themselves. The played around in class, didn't pay attention and didn't get good grades. On the playground they went around getting into fights. When they were a bit older they got into thieving and drug dealing (still at school). One of them decided to burn down a large part of our school.

So am I privileged because of my colour and race, or have I put some effort in to make something of myself? Do I deserve rewards or does this Maori guy (thug, drug dealer and arsonist) does he deserve a leg up? Should he get the job that I am applying for even if I am more qualified and have a better attitude? Should he be the CEO? Because he has some Maori blood? Is that his right?

When I went to university, there weren't many Maori, there were lots of Whites, lots of girls, lots of Chinese, quite a few Fijians. Why weren't the Maori in university? Was it because the university wasn't accepting Maori, or was it because the Maori either weren't interested in going or weren't applying themselves at school and hence didn't qualify? Does this mean that non Maori are privileged (and that is unfair) or is it because for some reason there is a problem in the culture and family upbringing of the Maori?

Do we balance this issue by lowering the standard and letting Maori with poor grades into Uni whilst at the same time disallowing non Maori with poor grades? OR do we try to educate Maori parents and try to convince them to put focus on their own kids, teach them stuff, get them interested in academic achievements?

They are not victims of the privileged. They are making themselves their own victims. They have equal opportunity. They need to compete like the rest of us, they need to put effort in. Their parents need to stop being so aggressive and resentful, they need to lay off the booze and gambling. They need to focus on the home, focus on developing a "can do" attitude in their children, educate them and encourage them to pay attention in class. To compete against the whites, the Chinese, the males, the females for the same grades, the same awards, the same jobs. It makes no sense to segregate, that makes the issue worse. It makes no sense to put quota's on various races with regards to hiring policy.
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27-08-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Focusing on White
(26-08-2016 03:00 PM)Stevil Wrote:  How come in this PC environment it is OK to focus on races other than the white race?

In NZ we have:
a Maori rugby team.
special Maori parliament seats.
articles about Maori perspective.

But racist if we focus on white?

What we don't have is:
A European/White rugby team
special parliament seats for whites only
articles about the White perspective.

When it comes to racism there is only one human race. Different colors of skin, and different colors of hair and different colors of eyes, but all the same race.
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