Poll: Atheists only: Do you believe no god(s) exists?
Yes, I believe no god(s) exists
No, I do not believe no god(s) exists
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For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
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04-02-2017, 08:14 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 08:17 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 07:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 07:31 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Can you give me one example that proves something doesn't exist outside of a logical fallacy?

Sure, all that exists is the natural world, therefore anything supernatural does not exist.

Physicalism is true, therefore anything, any being, etc that violates a physicalist view of the world does not exist, or is not true.

The laws of physics can't be violated, anything that violates the laws of physics does not exist.

The world, humanity etc, is just one big puddle, therefore anything that appeals to design, or intention is false.

Any position that makes it unlikely for any alternative to be true will suffice.
You wrote:
"Sure, all that exists is the natural world, therefore anything supernatural does not exist. "
Is this evidence? This is just an opinion. How do you know that all that exists is the natural world?
Have you ever heard of the raven paradox?
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04-02-2017, 08:18 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 07:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 07:31 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Can you give me one example that proves something doesn't exist outside of a logical fallacy?

Sure, all that exists is the natural world, therefore anything supernatural does not exist.

Physicalism is true, therefore anything, any being, etc that violates a physicalist view of the world does not exist, or is not true.

The laws of physics can't be violated, anything that violates the laws of physics does not exist.

The world, humanity etc, is just one big puddle, therefore anything that appeals to design, or intention is false.

Any position that makes it unlikely for any alternative to be true will suffice.

You didn't read the question.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-02-2017, 08:19 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:14 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You wrote:
"Sure, all that exists is the natural world, therefore anything supernatural does not exist. "
Is this evidence? This is just an opinion. How do you know that all that exists is the natural world?

It's based on inductive reasoning, every scientific discovery, points to the natural world being all that exists, that no supernatural properties, elements, beings, etc.. exist. All the scientific evidence we has suggests that we have is the natural world, therefore nothing supernatural is likely to exist.



Quote:Have you ever heard of the blackbird fallacy?

Is that same thing as the blackswan? Problem of induction? If so, sure.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-02-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 08:14 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You wrote:
"Sure, all that exists is the natural world, therefore anything supernatural does not exist. "
Is this evidence? This is just an opinion. How do you know that all that exists is the natural world?

It's based on inductive reasoning, every scientific discovery, points to the natural world being all that exists, that no supernatural properties, elements, beings, etc.. exist.



Quote:Have you ever heard of the blackbird fallacy?

Is that same thing as the blackswan? Problem of induction? If so, sure.

Sorry I meant the Raven Paradox.
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04-02-2017, 08:24 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:20 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Sorry I meant the Raven Paradox.

I just briefly looked it up, it seems to be similar to the problem of induction. It's not a fallacy from what I could tell, but a paradox, and can be a problem. But there's nothing necessarily wrong with such inferences.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-02-2017, 08:37 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 08:50 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:24 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 08:20 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Sorry I meant the Raven Paradox.

I just briefly looked it up, it seems to be similar to the problem of induction. It's not a fallacy from what I could tell, but a paradox, and can be a problem. But there's nothing necessarily wrong with such inferences.
I re-read your responses quite a few times and it would seem that you have been inserting the word "likely" with objective words such as "is" & "does" in some instances & other times not.

I will agree with you if you say things like:
"God likely does not exist."
but if you say:
"God does not exist."
I'll ask you to provide evidence.

A lack of Evidence is not Evidence for an objective reality.
The only known way to prove something does not exist is to prove it's logically impossible to exist.
Eg.
A circular square does not exist.

This is why I asked you to show me one example of Evidence for the none-existence of something.
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04-02-2017, 08:49 AM
For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:37 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I will agree with you if you say things like:
"God likely does not exist."
But when you say:
"God does not exist.*
I'll ask you to provide evidence.

Well i was speaking in terms of beliefs here, I. E a belief that god does not exist. So I treat them them same. The things which I see as likely not existing, are also things that I believe do not exist. And I mean likely in a probabilistic way.

The only thing being excluded is any sort of absolute knowledge or certainty.





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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-02-2017, 08:58 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 06:15 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How does the burden of proof lie with him? He never made the claim leprechaun's do or don't exist.
All he is saying is that "he doesn't know or believe". That's the only claim he is making.
You are the one making a claim that Leprechauns do not exist.
He is well within his right to ask you how do you know this?
You can't shift the burden of proof by saying "How do you know they do exist?" Because he never made such a claim.

LOL... you're just going around in circles now mate. If you don't apparently understand simple logic, then you'd better do some reading on the subject.

Quote:How did you get from me saying "a lack of evidence about the existence of something is reason to believe it does not exist" to saying "I believe leprechauns might exist"?

I would've thought it's fairly obvious; because there's (obviously) no evidence proving—to you—that leprechauns don't exist, then ergo, you must personally accept the possibility that they do.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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04-02-2017, 09:02 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 08:37 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I will agree with you if you say things like:
"God likely does not exist."
But when you say:
"God does not exist.*
I'll ask you to provide evidence.

Well i was speaking in terms of beliefs here, I. E a belief that god does not exist. So I treat them them same. The things which I see as likely not existing, are also things that I believe do not exist. And I mean likely in a probabilistic way.

The only thing being excluded is any sort of absolute knowledge or certainty.





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In that case you will get no objection from me.
I only object to statements of absolute certainty on an objective level.
See my sig.
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04-02-2017, 09:07 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 09:31 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 08:58 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 06:15 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How does the burden of proof lie with him? He never made the claim leprechaun's do or don't exist.
All he is saying is that "he doesn't know or believe". That's the only claim he is making.
You are the one making a claim that Leprechauns do not exist.
He is well within his right to ask you how do you know this?
You can't shift the burden of proof by saying "How do you know they do exist?" Because he never made such a claim.

LOL... you're just going around in circles now mate. If you don't apparently understand simple logic, then you'd better do some reading on the subject.

Quote:How did you get from me saying "a lack of evidence about the existence of something is reason to believe it does not exist" to saying "I believe leprechauns might exist"?

I would've thought it's fairly obvious; because there's (obviously) no evidence proving—to you—that leprechauns don't exist, then ergo, you must personally accept the possibility that they do.
How am I going around in circles?
If no one made a claim to the contrary of "God does not exist" why would they be required to defend a "God exists" claim?
The Ignostic is claiming uncertainty & you are claiming certainty.
You want him to prove he is uncertain?
Also I keep repeating "A lack of evidence is not evidence". There is no way I can use a lack of evidence to prove or disprove something.
Logic couldn't get any simpler than this.

Let me give you an example of how I can prove something does not exist:

"A creature that creates circular squares exist. They are called Leprechauns."
Since Circular Squares cannot logically exist, a creature that can create them cannot exist.

As far as semantics are concerned you can call any real thing a Leprechaun & I won't deny it's existence.
I used to call my gf's ex a leprechaun. He really does exist.
If someone said he could create circular squares I would claim such a being does not exist.
My gf's x exists, however my gf's x that can create circular squares does not exist.

It's the same with God. You can call just about anything God. It's all semantics.
It's when you try to define what God is that I now have the opportunity to say if such a being could actually exist or not.
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