Poll: Atheists only: Do you believe no god(s) exists?
Yes, I believe no god(s) exists
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For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
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04-02-2017, 01:09 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 12:02 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Do you think believing that Shane is not married is in any way comparable to believing that Shane is an all powerful leprechaun ?

I believe that all powerful leprechauns don't exist, and that if shane thinks he's an all powerful leprechauns he's likely mentally ill, and unsurprisingly a bachelor.

Shane can possibly be married or unmarried, where as he can't be an all powerful leprachaun, because all powerful leprechauns don't exist.

I have a variety of inductive based reasonings to conclude that all powerful leprechauns don't exist, unlike regarding Shane's martial status. SO i don't merely have a lack of evidence regarding their non-existence, as I might in regards to shane's marital status here.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-02-2017, 01:25 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 11:41 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Lack of evidence is one of those properties.

But that isn't really the thrust here. It is not merely that there is no evidence for gods; it is that there is no evidence where we would expect to find some. If someone tells you that there is an elephant in the living room, and you look in the living room to see no elephant, that is evidence that the elephant does not exist.

If God's supposedly an immaterial being, and if atheists are asking for sample of his ectoplasm, than clearly their expectations are not a part of the claim itself, unlike in your elephant example.


Quote:There is a complete lack of evidence that any intelligent agency was involved in the creation of the universe, including even and especially any part of it related to Earth and its life forms. We can reasonably conclude that no gods exist from this.

I think it's the exact opposite, that there's a complete lack of evidence that unintentionality resulted in all of this, that we're just a cosmic accident, or some nicely formed puddle. Human beings, consciousness, sense of moral directions, desire for meaning, truth, a sense there's something more here than the sum of it's part, religious convergences, archetypes, themes, etc.... leave an unintentional picture as an absurdity. But where I see Mount Rushmore you see pareidolia. Where as I see a work of art, you see a finely formed puddle.

Our most intuitive perceptions of reality is that we are part of a created order, that we have moral purposes, but where as I see direction, you seen an illusion. Your atheism demands this.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-02-2017, 01:30 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(03-02-2017 09:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 07:28 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  A lack of evidence does not prove the none existence of something. It's just more rational to believe it does not exist, but it does not PROVE anything.
Actually it's not rational to believe something does not exist, unless you have some sort of evidence to suggest it doesn't. Without evidence your left with a lack a belief.
---

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Exactly!
A lack of belief.
It really is that simple. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-02-2017, 01:34 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 01:55 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 12:56 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 12:41 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  From this I don't see how anyone can still claim the early universe progression into it's present state is the result of purely Entropic causes.

Argument from incredulity.

Just because we don't understand something does not automatically equate to divine intervention.

Also, the universe may not be as fine-tuned as one might believe. Sources: Is the Universe Fine-Tuned for Life?

and

Why the universe wasn't fine-tuned for life
That's exactly what Sean Carol is saying & I 100% agree with that.
It cannot be an argument from incredulity because I am not ARGUING against it.
"Just because we don't understand something does not automatically equate to divine intervention."
I 100% agree with that statement.

However, in light of no better explanatory theory than intelligent design is it so wrong for the Theists to believe in it?
We as Atheists choose not to believe in intelligent design in this particular case not because it's the weakest argument (it's the strongest) but because it's a theory & not hard facts.

Many Theists choose not to believe in Evolutionary Biology not because it's the weakest argument (it's the strongest) but because it's a theory & not hard facts.

In the two articles you presented they didn't provide any evidence against the fine tuning argument put forward by Martin Rees. What they did was claim we do not have enough data to come to a valid conclusion.
Is the Universe Fine-Tuned for Life?
Why the universe wasn't fine-tuned for life
Again I 100% agree with that, but in light of current data regarding the current state of the Universe the best theory that fits is that of intelligent design. It's by no means a conclusion on the matter.
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04-02-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 01:30 PM)kim Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 09:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Actually it's not rational to believe something does not exist, unless you have some sort of evidence to suggest it doesn't. Without evidence your left with a lack a belief.
---

Thumbsup
Exactly!
A lack of belief.
It really is that simple. Shy
Exactly
Thumbsup
A lack of belief.
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04-02-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 06:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 03:33 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Although, of course, we know that people exist, we know that marriage certificates exist. We know it is quite reasonable that this person might be married.

And that's adds nothing at all to what I said.
I wasn't trying to invalidate your claim of not knowing if the guy is married or not.

I was just putting the god thing into context. It is a much worse proposition.
We know that it is possible that people can be married.
We don't know that it is possible for gods to exist.
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04-02-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 12:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 11:58 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  There is evidence of some fine tuning of the universe.

If by fine-tuning they mean everything must be this way then sure.

(Grounding my own reference before Vera chastises me again.)




This is the best part of the trip, This is the trip, the best part, I really like. What'd he say?
I think by fine tuning they mean:
"the room for discrepancy is infinitesimally small"
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04-02-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 10:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So your belief that God don't exist, is not based on there being no evidence per se, but on the fact that Gods, ghosts, fairies etc.. have the qualities of non-existent things, i.e imaginary human constructs, rather than real things.

I have been teaching my girls that if something has magic e.g. fairies, witches, monsters, gods then those things don't exist because there is no such thing as magic.

In specific defense (against the black arts) against the silliness of Christianity, I have taught my girls that once you are dead, then you are dead, you won't magically just get up and start to walk around. We have poked dead rotting birds with sticks and we have inspected dead insects and indeed they do not look like they will come back to life. There has never been an instance of something being dead for three days and then coming back to life. Never.
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04-02-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 01:58 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 10:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So your belief that God don't exist, is not based on there being no evidence per se, but on the fact that Gods, ghosts, fairies etc.. have the qualities of non-existent things, i.e imaginary human constructs, rather than real things.

I have been teaching my girls that if something has magic e.g. fairies, witches, monsters, gods then those things don't exist because there is no such thing as magic.

In specific defense (against the black arts) against the silliness of Christianity, I have taught my girls that once you are dead, then you are dead, you won't magically just get up and start to walk around. We have poked dead rotting birds with sticks and we have inspected dead insects and indeed they do not look like they will come back to life. There has never been an instance of something being dead for three days and then coming back to life. Never.

The water bear & frozen tree frogs
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04-02-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(04-02-2017 11:41 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  It is not merely that there is no evidence for gods; it is that there is no evidence where we would expect to find some.
The problem with this argument in relation to gods is that you are claiming to know where the evidence should be.

In this way, as an unbeliever, you have merely constructed a strawman and demolished it (knocked over the chess pieces) and then gone back to your own kind, jumped around, thumping your chest and bragging that you won the game.

In order to actually win this fight you must discover from your opponent where the evidence ought to be and then you can try and prove that the evidence isn't there. But most theists don''t offer any falsifiable claims. And if one theist does, then that doesn't apply to other theists.

The real problem is that they haven't formed a claim suitable for evaluation. They haven't got that far. They are hoping that you will accept their incomplete claim as a valid one and will then endevour on a futile effort to invalidate it.
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