Poll: Atheists only: Do you believe no god(s) exists?
Yes, I believe no god(s) exists
No, I do not believe no god(s) exists
[Show Results]
 
For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-02-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(08-02-2017 04:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it becomes evidence for that conclusion - rightly or wrongly. It may also be evidence of some other conclusion. And it may be evidence before there is a conclusion - especially when there is insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion.

I don't see much of reason to argue with you here, other than I would quibble that it becomes evidence even when used for the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, hence the reason why the rest of unused data, treated as irrelevant to the conclusion is not regarded as evidence. The term evidence acquires it's meaning by function.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(08-02-2017 04:31 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So no, Tom. Dogs do not magically intuit the true nature of reality.


You're just making shit up.

I didn't say anything about the true nature of reality, so keep the strawman under control here. I'm just speaking of some small slice of reality, such as determining that another dog is friendly.


(08-02-2017 04:31 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Dogs, and other animals, have extremely primitive capabilities relating to reason. They are not capable of articulating these capabilities, but they still have them. They are capable of rudimentary induction, along with other basic logical operations. Their use of logic and evidence is primitive and trivial, but it is present.

Not only are they not able to articulate their capabilities, they don't process information by considering series of propositions either. Their brains take in a variety of sensory stimuli, which travel through a variety of neurochemical pathways, producing each particular perception, and render, resulting in a plethora of accurate assessments, perceiving threats, rewardable behaviors, social queues, rudimentary understandings of their owners behaviors and habits, etc..

Rather than starting with the idea of logic and evidence, start from the beginning , with a biological brain, drawing accurate inferences based on a plethora of stimuli.

And from there ask yourself, whether their thought patterns here that result in accurate perceptions of any particular reality are synonymous with logical thinking. And secondly, whether that data, the external stimuli, that led to these perceptions, are synonymous with evidence.

If you don't think they are, then that means that our thinking brains, are able to draw accurate perceptions of reality, non-logically, and without evidence, as well. And not just logically and evidence based.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2017, 05:13 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(08-02-2017 04:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 04:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it becomes evidence for that conclusion - rightly or wrongly. It may also be evidence of some other conclusion. And it may be evidence before there is a conclusion - especially when there is insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion.

I don't see much of reason to argue with you here, other than I would quibble that it becomes evidence even when used for the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, hence the reason why the rest of unused data, treated as irrelevant to the conclusion is not regarded as evidence. The term evidence acquires it's meaning by function.

One can recognize that a fact is evidence without reaching a conclusion. There is a process of gathering evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2017, 05:26 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(08-02-2017 05:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  One can recognize that a fact is evidence without reaching a conclusion. There is a process of gathering evidence.

Okay, conclusion might not be the word here, but perhaps inference or assumption, even its just a tentative hypothesis, or an educated guess. If you instructed someone to gather evidence, the first question to be asked is for what? And you can't recognize evidence absent of that. Evidence only exists in light of that. Otherwise it's just unclassified data.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2017, 06:01 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(08-02-2017 05:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I didn't say anything about the true nature of reality, so keep the strawman under control here. I'm just speaking of some small slice of reality, such as determining that another dog is friendly.

And the same thing holds.

(08-02-2017 05:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Not only are they not able to articulate their capabilities, they don't process information by considering series of propositions either.

Not consciously, no. It changes nothing.

(08-02-2017 05:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Their brains take in a variety of sensory stimuli, which travel through a variety of neurochemical pathways, producing each particular perception, and render, resulting in a plethora of accurate assessments, perceiving threats, rewardable behaviors, social queues, rudimentary understandings of their owners behaviors and habits, etc..

In other words, dealing with evidence and drawing rational conclusions from it.

You really don't seem to have any idea what these terms actually mean. You just try to reject them on principle because you don't like having to admit that you need an actual, rational basis for your beliefs if you want them to be considered valid.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-02-2017, 01:29 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
Hey Tomsasia & Stevil. I'm gonna like all your posts just for disagreeing with Unbeliever. Keep up the good work.
Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(09-02-2017 01:29 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Hey Tomsasia & Stevil. I'm gonna like all your posts just for disagreeing with Unbeliever.

No one cares. The three of you are free to like one another's posts all you want, for whatever reason you want.

No amount of likes will make you right.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Unbeliever's post
09-02-2017, 04:53 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(11-10-2016 12:46 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  On my present understanding there are no gods, no supernatural entities, no afterlife, no miracles, nuthin like that at all.


Don't stop me enjoying reading myths, legends and fantasy books though! Smile

how would you explain deathbed visions where ppl claim to see a white ghost like entity.leaving the body of a sick person in the hospital?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-02-2017, 04:56 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(09-02-2017 04:53 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  how would you explain deathbed visions where ppl claim to see a white ghost like entity.leaving the body of a sick person in the hospital?

Someone was tapping into Gramma's morphine drip seems like a reasonable explanation.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like GirlyMan's post
09-02-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(09-02-2017 04:53 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  how would you explain deathbed visions where ppl claim to see a white ghost like entity.leaving the body of a sick person in the hospital?

Lying or deluded.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Unbeliever's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: