Poll: Atheists only: Do you believe no god(s) exists?
Yes, I believe no god(s) exists
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13-02-2017, 11:50 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2017 11:54 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 11:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  Like an attorney that insists the witness answer yes or no, you over-simplify something that is more nuanced.

I don't give a fuck whether you argued for reasonableness; you only partially quoting me to pretend that I supported your position is dishonest.

This is not the first time you've done that. Stop doing that.

You do support my position when it comes to the sphinx dumb ass, i.e that the conclusion is logical.

In fact I purposely chose an example of a false conclusion, to make it clear that it wasn't the most reasonable conclusion, or even the true conclusion. But apparently that flew over your baldass head. The point that we agree on, that's it a logical conclusion, is the only one that mattered. Do I need to keep beating this over your head, till you get it?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-02-2017, 11:54 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 11:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 10:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, logical is not binary, there are degrees since one can reach many logical conclusions from the same set of facts , some more reasonable than others.

Let's see, i never said anything about logical conclusions being equally reasonable, I also never claimed that just because a conclusion is logical, that this means it's true.
So quite trying to push an argument on me that I never made.

Of course you didn't make it. That's the point.

You don't understand logic. You don't understand rationality. You don't understand the concept of the null hypothesis. You don't even understand what the word "evidence" means, despite having it explained to you repeatedly across multiple threads. If you did, you would have made that point.

The vast majority of any discussion with you consists of an endless tap-dance, with various users all trying to explain these concepts to you. Meanwhile, you run about in circles, trying to get the others to argue because you think that one is contradicting another. But they're not. You simply don't understand what is being said. You're too wrapped up in your pre-built straw men to actually understand the positions of anyone here.

And, in the end, it always comes down to something equivalent to your sphinx example - "It looks designed, so concluding that it actually is must be rational. I personally feel like objective morality exists, so concluding that it actually does exist is rational." And so on. Because that's all you have. It's all you've ever had.

But that isn't how this works.

Let us ignore, for the moment, the fact that the sphinx example is a false comparison; the observer already knows that people built sphinxes in this approximate area, and so on, while teleology has no such foundation to start from. Even ignoring that, the initial conclusion of design, while not strictly irrational, is discarded as more evidence comes to light about natural patterns of weathering.

So even ignoring that your entire "argument" is fallacious on its face, the absolute best you have is "well, if we didn't actually know about all these natural methods that produce these things, no deity required, then you'd have to listen to me!"

When the best you can possibly produce is to stick both fingers in your ears and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOUR EVIDENCE OVER THE SOUND OF MY INITIAL ASSUMPTIONS", then you really are in a sorry state.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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13-02-2017, 11:56 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 11:49 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Is this guy Huggy?

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#sigh
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13-02-2017, 01:41 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2017 01:45 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 11:54 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  And, in the end, it always comes down to something equivalent to your sphinx example - "It looks designed, so concluding that it actually is must be rational. I personally feel like objective morality exists, so concluding that it actually does exist is rational." And so on. Because that's all you have. It's all you've ever had.

lol, if it’s equivalent in the sphinx example, then you’d recognize that it’s a logical conclusion in both examples.

Concluding that something is designed because it looks designed, is logical, even if that conclusion is false, or even based on incomplete information at the time. At some level you seem to acknowledge this, and at another level want to deny it, for illogical reasons in fact, lol.

Quote:Let us ignore, for the moment, the fact that the sphinx example is a false comparison; the observer already knows that people built sphinxes in this approximate area, and so on, while teleology has no such foundation to start from. Even ignoring that, the initial conclusion of design, while not strictly irrational, is discarded as more evidence comes to light about natural patterns of weathering.

The observer infers that it was designed based on the fact that it looked design. Which is a logical deduction, even if he’s wrong and can discard it in light of new evidence. In fact prior to Darwin, and a series of later discoveries, the only logical conclusion that most people were able to draw was that we were created, part of a created order.

(**On a side not Spinx are not particularly Pakistani thing, it would be quite unusual for people to have built one in that approximate area. )

You not only think that they were wrong, but you want to make the ridiculous suggestion that this common conclusion, is illogical.

If you want to continue with this silly suggestion, let’s make it easy for your, what logical rule did deist, who inferred the universe is created, violate, that individuals who inferred that the natural sphinx was created didn’t?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-02-2017, 02:25 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 11:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 11:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  Like an attorney that insists the witness answer yes or no, you over-simplify something that is more nuanced.

I don't give a fuck whether you argued for reasonableness; you only partially quoting me to pretend that I supported your position is dishonest.

This is not the first time you've done that. Stop doing that.

You do support my position when it comes to the sphinx dumb ass, i.e that the conclusion is logical.

In fact I purposely chose an example of a false conclusion, to make it clear that it wasn't the most reasonable conclusion, or even the true conclusion. But apparently that flew over your baldass head. The point that we agree on, that's it a logical conclusion, is the only one that mattered. Do I need to keep beating this over your head, till you get it?

No, I do not do so unreservedly. Your paraphrase of my position is therefore a lie.

Stop doing that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-02-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  lol, if it’s equivalent in the sphinx example

It isn't.

Read before responding.

(13-02-2017 01:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  The observer infers that it was designed based on the fact that it looked design.

...and that it was presumed to be an instance of a thing known to be designed, in an area where said designers are known to have operated.

None of these things are true when it comes to teleology.

Try harder.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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13-02-2017, 02:44 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
Tomasia showing his lying face after slandering me here is pathetic.

Time to go after him. I'll have my lawyer mate onto this and my computer expert find out who he is and where.

Time to "Get served" Tomasia.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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13-02-2017, 02:48 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2017 02:53 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 02:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you fucking lying twat, I do not do so unreservedly. Your paraphrase of my position is therefore a lie.

Stop doing that.

Pointing out that you and I both agree that the position is logical is not a lie, you old fart, it's a verifiable fact.

It's like me and you agreeing that you're bald, only to have you accuse me of lying when I point out that we agree about this, for leaving out that you also mentioned your 4inch penis size. Your penis size has nothing to do with a discussion about whether your bald, just like your additional input has nothing to do with whether it's logical or not.

We agree on the logical parts, that all I've stated, you cranky old geezer, lol.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-02-2017, 02:50 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 02:42 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  None of these things are true when it comes to teleology.

Try harder.


Still waiting on your to cite the logical rule that was violated here:

"If you want to continue with this silly suggestion, let’s make it easy for your, what logical rule did deist, who inferred the universe is created, violate, that individuals who inferred that the natural sphinx was created didn’t?" I'd assume you had that readily available, but I guess not.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-02-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(13-02-2017 02:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Still waiting on your to cite the logical rule that was violated here:

"If you want to continue with this silly suggestion, let’s make it easy for your, what logical rule did deist, who inferred the universe is created, violate, that individuals who inferred that the natural sphinx was created didn’t?"

Oh sweet Christ you are an idiot.

Non sequitur. Bare assertion. False comparison. Look them up.

This is not complicated, Tom. Even those who have never taken a course in formal logic in their lives can generally recognize these when they come up.

Forgive me for assuming you at least knew what the most basic fallacies out there are. I'll be sure not to give you that sort of credit in the future.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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