Poll: Atheists only: Do you believe no god(s) exists?
Yes, I believe no god(s) exists
No, I do not believe no god(s) exists
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For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
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16-02-2017, 01:19 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
Also lets clarify what you mean by "designed" Tommy? You mean that some kind of intelligence deliberately conceived of the structure of the universe, correct? Because if we just take natural laws like gravitation and chemical/nuclear forces into account it's established that they can give rise to complex, regular patterns such as crystals, but that doesn't count as design, yes?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-02-2017, 01:36 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(16-02-2017 01:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  If you can't establish criteria by which you judge that the universe is designed - if you can't say "A not-designed universe would have X characteristics while a designed universe would have Y characteristics, and we observe Y hence we conclude that we live in a designed universe"... If you can't do that then you cannot conclude that we live in a designed universe.

I've been trying to get this point across for several pages now. I doubt Tom will give any more attention to it coming from you than he does for me. He's too wrapped up in his idea that Dawkins' rhetorical choice to ignore this incoherent premise in favor of dealing with the conclusion somehow indicates that the premise is not incoherent, and that any atheist who refuses to concede the premise is somehow deficient or just kidding themselves.

Because he's rather an arrogant ass that way.

But I wish you the best of luck all the same.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-02-2017, 01:47 AM
RE: For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
(16-02-2017 01:36 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-02-2017 01:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  If you can't establish criteria by which you judge that the universe is designed - if you can't say "A not-designed universe would have X characteristics while a designed universe would have Y characteristics, and we observe Y hence we conclude that we live in a designed universe"... If you can't do that then you cannot conclude that we live in a designed universe.

I've been trying to get this point across for several pages now. I doubt Tom will give any more attention to it coming from you than he does for me. He's too wrapped up in his idea that Dawkins' rhetorical choice to ignore this incoherent premise in favor of dealing with the conclusion somehow indicates that the premise is not incoherent, and that any atheist who refuses to concede the premise is somehow deficient or just kidding themselves.

Because he's rather an arrogant ass that way.

But I wish you the best of luck all the same.

Laugh out load I've tangled with Tommy before. It's no more than idle passing of the time for me, since I hold zero confidence that even if he did understand the argument he'd ever admit it. But I don't like to let him caper around pretending to be some kind of intellectual without a challenge either. The idea is not to get anything through Tommy's titanium cranium, but rather to prevent him from using his weasel tactics to pretend he's making any sort of reasonable argument.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-02-2017, 05:05 AM
For Atheists: Do you believe no god(s) exist?
Again, phrasing the question like that already loads it in the theists favor. Gods do not exist. There I fixed it for you.


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