For The "Bernie or Busters"
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11-06-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(11-06-2016 12:27 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 12:05 PM)Vosur Wrote:  That's simple enough. I do it because the US is one of the few countries with a democratically elected government whose election outcome has a major impact on the rest of the world. I wouldn't care about your elections nearly as much if your government actually thought about and took responsibility for the consequences of its foreign policy decisions, but it doesn't. It was the US who started and then bullied the rest of the world into supporting their pointless wars in the Middle East and yet it's not the US that are taking in the millions of refugees who were displaced as a result of these decisions. No, instead it's countries like Germany who are being burdened with these problems. You could make the argument that it would be much more costly to ship them to the US and you would be correct, but in that case, the US should be financially contributing to our efforts to house them in a major way, which they don't.

Interesting. So basically you're saying that because you don't like how your countries in Europe whore out to the US you feel compelled to try to change the US rather than change your own country? Is that right?

If other countries don't want to go long with or follow or align themselves with the US they don't have to. That is their choice. Of course that would mean you would have to vote in or vote out politicians who would be willing to do that. That is where you might actually have a say in how things are run.

I guess I've never considered trying to influence the politics of other countries because my own country is, I don't know, may not be the right word, submissive? I avoid using weak or helpless because I felt it was too non-agency minded. Must be hard to live under such oppression.

We take in millions of refugees, maybe not the ones you are taking in but none then less, millions. If fact I think a huge amount of our country is refugee based either directly or by generations of previous refugees, if I'm not mistaken, so I don't think we can say the US is refugee free. No, I would say over our short lifetime as a country we have done our share and will continue to do so.

Of course, with Trump at the helm that would be the first thing to go. That would be a shame.
I wish the solution was that simple, but it doesn't make a difference which politicians we elect in Germany. Why, you ask? Because our leaders aren't being given a choice. The US punishes nations that go against their (foreign) policy decisions with economic sanctions and worse. What they're doing is borderline extortion and we have no realistic choice but to give into their demands.

As for the refugee situation, yes, the US does indeed take in refugees from other places, but you're greatly exaggerating the numbers. According to the official statistics, the US, a country with a population of 319 million people and a land mass of 9.857 million km², has only taken in 927,422 refugees in the past 16 years combined. Germany, meanwhile, a country with a population of 80 million and a land mass of 357,168 km², has taken in 937,504 refugees in the past five years alone, with many more planning to arrive over the course of this year. You can imagine how much pressure Clinton is going to put on Saudi Arabia to take in their fair share of refugees after she has taken tens of millions of dollars from them. That is to say, no pressure at all.

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11-06-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(11-06-2016 01:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 12:27 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Interesting. So basically you're saying that because you don't like how your countries in Europe whore out to the US you feel compelled to try to change the US rather than change your own country? Is that right?

If other countries don't want to go long with or follow or align themselves with the US they don't have to. That is their choice. Of course that would mean you would have to vote in or vote out politicians who would be willing to do that. That is where you might actually have a say in how things are run.

I guess I've never considered trying to influence the politics of other countries because my own country is, I don't know, may not be the right word, submissive? I avoid using weak or helpless because I felt it was too non-agency minded. Must be hard to live under such oppression.

We take in millions of refugees, maybe not the ones you are taking in but none then less, millions. If fact I think a huge amount of our country is refugee based either directly or by generations of previous refugees, if I'm not mistaken, so I don't think we can say the US is refugee free. No, I would say over our short lifetime as a country we have done our share and will continue to do so.

Of course, with Trump at the helm that would be the first thing to go. That would be a shame.
I wish the solution was that simple, but it doesn't make a difference which politicians we elect in Germany. Why, you ask? Because our leaders aren't being given a choice. The US punishes nations that go against their (foreign) policy decisions with economic sanctions and worse. What they're doing is borderline extortion and we have no realistic choice but to give into their demands.

As for the refugee situation, yes, the US does indeed take in refugees from other places, but you're greatly exaggerating the numbers. According to the official statistics, the US, a country with a population of 319 million people and a land mass of 9.857 million km², has only taken in 927,422 refugees in the past 16 years combined. Germany, meanwhile, a country with a population of 80 million and a land mass of 357,168 km², has taken in 937,504 refugees in the past five years alone, with many more planning to arrive over the course of this year. You can imagine how much pressure Clinton is going to put on Saudi Arabia to take in their fair share of refugees after she has taken tens of millions of dollars from them. That is to say, no pressure at all.

Again, it's your choice to submit to sanctions. There are countries who do only as they see fit without aid or favors from the US. You are welcome to do this if you choose.

You can blame the US for your financial woes or you could take ownership of your decisions.

We take refugees and we also have the added burden of illegal immigration at a rate you cannot fathom in your country. So you can add a few to the refugee population of your statistic to include the whole number.

"How many illegal immigrants enter US annually? 700,000

Illegal immigration may be as high as 1,500,000 per year with a net of at least 700,000 illegal immigrants arriving every year. Immigration led to a 57.4% increase in foreign born population from 1990 to 2000.

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_S…


Whether they are legal or illegal they still need food, lodging, medical care, jobs and schools for their children. That cost our country on many fronts. So please don't tell me how bad you have it compared to how few people US takes in and cares for in it's borders. We do our share.

And again, though you seem to ignore this point of your favorite candidate, Trump would stop this and kick out the ones here. How do you reconcile this to your complaint?

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11-06-2016, 01:45 PM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2016 01:49 PM by Minimalist.)
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
The Nader fans should pause to consider how different the history of the world would be if Gore were president instead of that tit-turd, Bush.

Then the Bernie fans should wake the fuck up and realize that Drumpf is worse than Dubya.

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11-06-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(11-06-2016 01:31 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Again, it's your choice to submit to sanctions. There are countries who do only as they see fit without aid or favors from the US. You are welcome to do this if you choose.

You can blame the US for your financial woes or you could take ownership of your decisions.
Wait, what? You think that a country can simply choose whether or not to submit to sanctions? That's not how sanctions work. That's not how they work at all. North Korea, Iran and Russia would happily get rid of their sanctions, but they don't get to have a say in it. It wasn't until the US had finished negotiating the infamous Iran nuclear deal that they decided to lift their sanctions on Iran. I think we should be telling the nation that is committing extortion to stop its borderline criminal behavior instead of telling the victim of extortion to accept this behavior and simply live with the consequences, but that's just me.

(11-06-2016 01:31 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  We take refugees and we also have the added burden of illegal immigration at a rate you cannot fathom in your country. So you can add a few to the refugee population of your statistic to include the whole number.

"How many illegal immigrants enter US annually? 700,000

Illegal immigration may be as high as 1,500,000 per year with a net of at least 700,000 illegal immigrants arriving every year. Immigration led to a 57.4% increase in foreign born population from 1990 to 2000.

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_S…


Whether they are legal or illegal they still need food, lodging, medical care, jobs and schools for their children. That cost our country on many fronts. So please don't tell me how bad you have it compared to how few people US takes in and cares for in it's borders. We do our share.

And again, though you seem to ignore this point of your favorite candidate, Trump would stop this and kick out the ones here. How do you reconcile this to your complaint?
My favorite? No. I simply think that he's better than Clinton (which isn't saying much). That being said, it's true that he doesn't want Syrian refugees in the US, but he also doesn't want them to go to Europe. His plan is to establish safe zones in Syria itself and house the refugees there. He also expressed a desire to make Saudi Arabia take in some of them.

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11-06-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(10-06-2016 09:06 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 08:36 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Haha, dude, you don't have the option to "bust" do you? You aren't American, correct? If you literally cannot vote then "busting" isn't an action you can take.

Maybe my interpretation of bust in this context is incorrect, but I think of it as abstaining from voting or writing Bernie in.

Well actually I am american Tongue

To the extent that South Jersey counts as American soil.

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11-06-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
FBI criminal investigation emails: Clinton approved CIA drone assassinations with her cellphone, report says
https://archive.is/6pJVl

Laugh out load

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11-06-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
Gary Johnson - It's time for a pothead President.

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11-06-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(11-06-2016 02:41 PM)Vosur Wrote:  FBI criminal investigation emails: Clinton approved CIA drone assassinations with her cellphone, report says
https://archive.is/6pJVl

Laugh out load


Just for the record this is not a "love to hate Clinton" thread, there are threads for that as you well know, it's a Bernie or Bust thread.


But even if it wasn't, I don't address proven lies. Thx

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11-06-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(11-06-2016 02:06 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Wait, what? You think that a country can simply choose whether or not to submit to sanctions? That's not how sanctions work. That's not how they work at all. North Korea, Iran and Russia would happily get rid of their sanctions, but they don't get to have a say in it. It wasn't until the US had finished negotiating the infamous Iran nuclear deal that they decided to lift their sanctions on Iran. I think we should be telling the nation that is committing extortion to stop its borderline criminal behavior instead of telling the victim of extortion to accept this behavior and simply live with the consequences, but that's just me.

Then do that and refuse our foreign aid until it happens.

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11-06-2016, 03:14 PM
RE: For The "Bernie or Busters"
(11-06-2016 02:56 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Just for the record this is not a "love to hate Clinton" thread, there are threads for that as you well know, it's a Bernie or Bust thread.

But even if it wasn't, I don't address proven lies. Thx
I don't know if you realize this, but your insecurity about your support for Ms. Clinton is so blatantly obvious that there's no point in trying to mask or lie about it. You know perfectly well that the claims in the article aren't "proven lies" since it is new information and came out just yesterday. You know perfectly well that if I asked you to demonstrate that they are proven lies, you would be unable to do so because even the Clinton campaign itself has yet to comment on it ("Clinton's campaign did not immediately respond for comment for this report").

(11-06-2016 02:59 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Then do that and refuse our foreign aid until it happens.
What? You're not making any sense. US sanctions don't consist of refusing to give a country foreign aid money. Here are some examples of the kind of sanctions that the US imposes on countries that don't play ball:

"The United States has imposed an arms ban and an almost total economic embargo on Iran, which includes sanctions on companies doing business with Iran, a ban on all Iranian-origin imports, sanctions on Iranian financial institutions, and an almost total ban on selling aircraft or repair parts to Iranian aviation companies. A license from the Treasury Department is required to do business with Iran. [...] In February 2012 the US froze all property of the Central Bank of Iran and other Iranian financial institutions, as well as that of the Iranian government, within the United States."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

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