For TheBorg,
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04-09-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 06:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Honestly, I'm floundering around in this conversation.

Now I have the image of Aliza with two eyes on one side of her head. Sadcryface

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04-09-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 06:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 04:08 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Aliza, what right have you got to ask me to prove something to you? What would the concept proof even mean in a subjective universe? If you want me to prove it to you that theism is false, you would be stealing concepts again. Now it has been over a week and no one has even attempted to answer my opening post.

Honestly, I'm floundering around in this conversation. I have no background in philosophy and I'm struggling to keep recently learned concepts in my head. It's like there's no traction in there and they just slip right out.

To me, G-d is like an alien race. Maybe it's out there, and maybe it's not. We just don't know and our opinions on the matter won't change a damn thing.

And it doesn't matter anyway. Someone else's believing in G-d or aliens doesn't impact my life at all, so why should I care what they think? Why should they care what I think?

The reason I can't answer your opening post is because I have no idea what you've asked. Even when you try to explain it, there's still too much jargon in there to help me grasp it.

Aliza, did it matter that the nazi's were subjectivists. I'd say it mattered a great deal. They believed that there was one reality for the Jews and another for the Aryans.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-09-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 06:35 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Honestly, I'm floundering around in this conversation. I have no background in philosophy and I'm struggling to keep recently learned concepts in my head. It's like there's no traction in there and they just slip right out.

To me, G-d is like an alien race. Maybe it's out there, and maybe it's not. We just don't know and our opinions on the matter won't change a damn thing.

And it doesn't matter anyway. Someone else's believing in G-d or aliens doesn't impact my life at all, so why should I care what they think? Why should they care what I think?

The reason I can't answer your opening post is because I have no idea what you've asked. Even when you try to explain it, there's still too much jargon in there to help me grasp it.

It matters because what people do and how they act is determined in large part by the ideas they hold. When the majority of the people in the world hold false ideas, it's not going to end pretty, as it hasn't throughout Human History.

It seems to me that the problem is with their religion and the way they choose to act. Not simply that they believe in G-d.

I'm 100% with you that religion can influence people to behave terribly. It's just that I don't think that's the exclusive result of all religions. I think there are plenty of very bad man-made concepts in all religions that can and should be reformed. If they are, people can still hold onto their cultural traditions and values that they may hold dear and just adapt their religions to the changing times so humanity can more easily progress.
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04-09-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 06:46 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:35 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  It matters because what people do and how they act is determined in large part by the ideas they hold. When the majority of the people in the world hold false ideas, it's not going to end pretty, as it hasn't throughout Human History.

It seems to me that the problem is with their religion and the way they choose to act. Not simply that they believe in G-d.

I'm 100% with you that religion can influence people to behave terribly. It's just that I don't think that's the exclusive result of all religions. I think there are plenty of very bad man-made concepts in all religions that can and should be reformed. If they are, people can still hold onto their cultural traditions and values that they may hold dear and just adapt their religions to the changing times so humanity can more easily progress.

I said it is determined by the ideas they hold. Theism certainly is a set of false ideas. There are many false ideas out there besides theism but they all lead to destruction. Are you familiar with the caste system in India?
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04-09-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 06:31 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What about a transistor? Or a diamond out of sand?
what about them? .... Do people wish them into existence?

Yes. Doesn't mean there ain't no work behind the wish.

#sigh
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04-09-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 07:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:31 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  what about them? .... Do people wish them into existence?

Yes. Doesn't mean there ain't no work behind the wish.

Well, if it requires more than the wish, then that seals my point.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-09-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 07:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:31 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  what about them? .... Do people wish them into existence?

Yes. Doesn't mean there ain't no work behind the wish.

Well, if it requires more than the wish, then that seals my point.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-09-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 06:46 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:35 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  It matters because what people do and how they act is determined in large part by the ideas they hold. When the majority of the people in the world hold false ideas, it's not going to end pretty, as it hasn't throughout Human History.

It seems to me that the problem is with their religion and the way they choose to act. Not simply that they believe in G-d.

I'm 100% with you that religion can influence people to behave terribly. It's just that I don't think that's the exclusive result of all religions. I think there are plenty of very bad man-made concepts in all religions that can and should be reformed. If they are, people can still hold onto their cultural traditions and values that they may hold dear and just adapt their religions to the changing times so humanity can more easily progress.

Aren’t all religions carved in stone sort of speak?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-09-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 07:09 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 07:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yes. Doesn't mean there ain't no work behind the wish.

Well, if it requires more than the wish, then that seals my point.

Also Seals and Croft. Smartass

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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04-09-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(04-09-2016 07:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 06:46 PM)Aliza Wrote:  It seems to me that the problem is with their religion and the way they choose to act. Not simply that they believe in G-d.

I'm 100% with you that religion can influence people to behave terribly. It's just that I don't think that's the exclusive result of all religions. I think there are plenty of very bad man-made concepts in all religions that can and should be reformed. If they are, people can still hold onto their cultural traditions and values that they may hold dear and just adapt their religions to the changing times so humanity can more easily progress.

Are all religions carved in stone sort of speak?

I don't think any religion is carved in stone, and I certainly don't think any need to be even if they think they are.

Certainly mine is not 100% carved in stone and the proof is in the pudding. Most of Judaism has discarded Rabbinic law. Even orthodoxy is slowing coming up with reasons within Rabbinic and Torah law why certain practices should be changed in order to accommodate people's changing political and social ideology.
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