For TheBorg,
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-09-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: For TheBorg,
(21-09-2016 07:22 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 07:19 AM)theBorg Wrote:  For a start you should to less often think of yourself as of an atheist. Try to stick less closer to the atheism.

Why?

Quote:Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. (John 13:7 KJV)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-09-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: For TheBorg,
(21-09-2016 08:27 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 07:22 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Why?

Quote:Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. (John 13:7 KJV)

But why should I care what your imaginary god said?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Mathilda's post
21-09-2016, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2016 05:29 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: For TheBorg,
(21-09-2016 08:27 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 07:22 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Why?

Quote:Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. (John 13:7 KJV)

You seem to actually care about getting us to believe what you're saying, so I'll give you a tip to avoid the most common pitfalls that just make us facepalm and which do nothing to advance your goal.

There's something called the Outsider Test for Faith. In this, you imagine how your faith (and particularly your tactics for arguing for attempting to persuade others of your faith) appear to an outsider who doesn't share your faith, and ask if this is convincing. This lets you avoid tactics that hinge on your faith and that will fail with outsiders who don't share that faith, and help you focus on tactics that might have a remote chance of working.

One of the best ways of doing this is to take your tactic and ask how convincing would it be if someone of another faith, which you don't share, did the equivalent thing to you.

Let's apply this to your strategy of quoting the Bible by imagining a fairly similar scenario of a Muslim quoting from the Koran.

....

Imagine that a Muslim is trying to convince you of the truth of Islam, and in particular trying to get you to distance yourself from Christianity. In this effort, he quotes from the Koran, citing sura and ayah (chapter and verse) wherein Mohamed describes Christianity as a corrupted religion.

Does this convince you? Of course not.

Why not? Because you do not regard the Koran as an authority. You regard it as a fictional text that leads people into a false religion. To hear something quoted from it does not persuade you, not in the least, of the truth of what's quoted or that you should do what the text says.

The Muslim knows that you're a Christian, and that you do not regard the Koran as authoritative, and yet for some inexplicable reason he thought a Koran quote would convince you of anything. Whether or not his religious beliefs are true, either way, his awful choice of tactics shows that Muslim to be an idiot. That Muslim is so much of an idiot that it is almost physically painful to watch him in his idiocy.

...

Got that? Do you understand why what that hypothetical Muslim did is exceedingly, painfully, horrifically idiotic?

...

Now. You are trying to convince us of the truth of Christianity (Eastern Orthodox variant), and in particular trying to get us to distance ourselves from atheism. In this effort, you quote from the Bible, citing chapter and verse wherein Jesus promises.... something vague.

Does this convince us? Of course not.

Why not? Because we do not regard the Bible as an authority. We regard it as a fictional text that leads people into a false religion. To hear something quoted from it does not persuade us, not in the least, of the truth of what's quoted or that we should do what the text says.

You know that we're atheists, and that we do not regard the Bible as authoritative, and yet for some inexplicable reason you think a Bible quote would convince us of anything. Whether or not your religious beliefs are true, either way, your awful choice of tactics shows you to be an idiot. You are so much of an idiot that it is almost physically painful to watch you in your idiocy.

...

Think about your tactics if you want to be effective. The fact that you aren't actually thinking this through tells me that you aren't taking this seriously.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Reltzik's post
21-09-2016, 04:14 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
Holy crap, 17 pages for Borgy? I'm not bored enough to read all this.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-09-2016, 04:16 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(21-09-2016 04:14 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Holy crap, 17 pages for Borgy? I'm not bored enough to read all this.

It's okay, he only starts replying at post 161. Just a few posts back.

.... though to be fair, the thread since then isn't that interesting either.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-09-2016, 04:38 PM
RE: For TheBorg,
(21-09-2016 03:37 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 08:27 AM)theBorg Wrote:  

You seem to actually care about getting us to believe what you're saying, so I'll give you a tip to avoid the most common pitfalls that just make us facepalm and which do nothing to advance your goal.

There's something called the Outsider Test for Faith. In this, you imagine how your faith (and particularly your tactics for arguing for attempting to persuade others of your faith) appear to an outsider who doesn't share your faith, and ask if this is convincing. This lets you avoid tactics that hinge on your faith and that will fail with outsiders who don't share that faith, and help you focus on tactics that might have a remote chance of working.

One of the best ways of doing this is to take your tactic and ask how convincing would it be if someone of another faith, which you don't share, did the equivalent thing to you.

Let's apply this to your strategy of quoting the Bible by imagining a fairly similar scenario of a Muslim quoting from the Koran.

....

Imagine that a Muslim is trying to convince you of the truth of Islam, and in particular trying to get you to distance yourself from Christianity. In this effort, he quotes from the Koran, citing sura and ayah (chapter and verse) wherein Mohamed describes Christianity as a corrupted religion.

Does this convince you? Of course not.

Why not? Because you do not regard the Koran as an authority. You regard it as a fictional text that leads people into a false religion. To hear something quoted from it does not persuade you, not in the least, of the truth of what's quoted or that you should do what the text says.

If the Muslim knows that you're a Christian, and that you do not regard the Koran as authoritative, and yet for some inexplicable reason he thought a Koran quote would convince you of anything. Whether or not his religious beliefs are true, either way, his awful choice of tactics shows that Muslim to be an idiot. That Muslim is so much of an idiot that it is almost physically painful to watch him in his idiocy.

...

Got that? Do you understand why what that hypothetical Muslim did is exceedingly, painfully, horrifically idiotic?

...

Now. You are trying to convince us of the truth of Christianity (Eastern Orthodox variant), and in particular trying to get us to distance ourselves from atheism. In this effort, you quote from the Bible, citing chapter and verse wherein Jesus promises.... something vague.

Does this convince us? Of course not.

Why not? Because we do not regard the Bible as an authority. We regard it as a fictional text that leads people into a false religion. To hear something quoted from it does not persuade us, not in the least, of the truth of what's quoted or that we should do what the text says.

You know that we're atheists, and that we do not regard the Bible as authoritative, and yet for some inexplicable reason you think a Bible quote would convince us of anything. Whether or not your religious beliefs are true, either way, your awful choice of tactics shows you to be an idiot. You are so much of an idiot that it is almost physically painful to watch you in your idiocy.

...

Think about your tactics if you want to be effective. The fact that you aren't actually thinking this through tells me that you aren't taking this seriously.

Like X 10^3! If I knew how to quote this, I'd put it in the great quotes thread.

This completely and accurately sums it up for rebutting anyone proselytizing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-09-2016, 12:15 AM
RE: For TheBorg,
(21-09-2016 03:37 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  There's something called the Outsider Test for Faith. In this, you imagine how your faith (and particularly your tactics for arguing for attempting to persuade others of your faith) appear to an outsider who doesn't share your faith, and ask if this is convincing. This lets you avoid tactics that hinge on your faith and that will fail with outsiders who don't share that faith, and help you focus on tactics that might have a remote chance of working.

I'm wondering then if someone like theBorg has Asperger's or is on the Autistic Spectrum with an inability to understand that other people have different view points and different information. If so then he'll just continue doing the same thing as he always does.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-09-2016, 12:22 AM
RE: For TheBorg,
(22-09-2016 12:15 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 03:37 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  There's something called the Outsider Test for Faith. In this, you imagine how your faith (and particularly your tactics for arguing for attempting to persuade others of your faith) appear to an outsider who doesn't share your faith, and ask if this is convincing. This lets you avoid tactics that hinge on your faith and that will fail with outsiders who don't share that faith, and help you focus on tactics that might have a remote chance of working.

I'm wondering then if someone like theBorg has Asperger's or is on the Autistic Spectrum with an inability to understand that other people have different view points and different information. If so then he'll just continue doing the same thing as he always does.

Maybe, but....

... by that logic more than half of Christians are on that spectrum.

EDIT: Well okay, maybe less than a 50% mark, but still a sizable share.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: