For free thinkers;
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09-03-2018, 06:56 AM
For free thinkers;
Thanks again to everyone for the sound advice.

Please feel free to continue the discussion; I will see it, but have to go to work right now.

peace

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09-03-2018, 07:27 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
(09-03-2018 06:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Please understand that this has zero to do with religion.

I will never impose my beliefs on my children. I was atheist when he was born and was very against him going to church or learning about "Jesus". I eased up on the issue early on as his grandmother on his mother's side is "Christian". We have briefly discussed the soul or spirit, but we do not and have not spoken about any religion or even directly about GOD.

He is 16
Ok, my bad, some of the comment read that it might be to do with that.


(09-03-2018 06:47 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  He shows interest in carpentry, but I detest the thought of him becoming a blue collar worker....I'll have to look past that. I have put him to work and am willing to again, but his whole motivation for getting money seems to be pot, as opposed to paying off his fine I have to pay for, or saving for a new phone or car or college.

The freedom I have him he has wholly exploited....this too I will have to her over... Thanks for the advice.

As far as reward for studies; I've done that since he was in school; giving him $100 dollars for straight A's on his report cards. He was a straight a student up until a year ago.

Re this bit: I get it, we all want whats best for our kids, but if he has chosen to go down a certain path, with carpentry for example, help him out in any way you can. If it's something he's good at, he can earn a whole lot of money from it, and he'll remember fondly that you encouraged him to follow his passion

With the pot stuff, try and be a bit clever about it. For example say "Look, it's not for me, but yes you can spend some money on pot.....if you do this other thing first" (The other thing being paying off his fine/saving for a car etc), and by that time, if he's no using pot, he might be so focussed on saving his money/paying things off, he'll have kind of grown out of it a bit. Not directly saying to openly give him pot, but kind of work around the idea so he is distracted by something else.

(09-03-2018 06:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Thanks again to everyone for the sound advice.

Please feel free to continue the discussion; I will see it, but have to go to work right now.

peace
Please do keep us updated Smile

"When you’re in a relationship, you’re in a band. Sometimes you sing lead and sometimes you’re on tambourine. And if you’re on tambourine, play it right. Play it with a fucking smile. ‘Cause nobody wants to see a mad tambourine player.” - Chris Rock
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09-03-2018, 07:27 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
Sorry your boy is going through this. I can't imagine how hard this must be.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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09-03-2018, 07:28 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
(09-03-2018 06:47 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  He shows interest in carpentry, but I detest the thought of him becoming a blue collar worker....I'll have to look past that. I have put him to work and am willing to again, but his whole motivation for getting money seems to be pot, as opposed to paying off his fine I have to pay for, or saving for a new phone or car or college.
Mmm. That's tough. I'd suggest that he needs to pay somewhat of the fine off at least, even if not the whole thing. He made the mess after all.

Quote:The freedom I have him he has wholly exploited....this too I will have to her over... Thanks for the advice.

As far as reward for studies; I've done that since he was in school; giving him $100 dollars for straight A's on his report cards. He was a straight a student up until a year ago.

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Please bear in mind I have no kids of my own. As a parent you have way more experience than me. I suggest some stuff, that's all. You're in a really tough spot.

Is there any obvious thing that changed in the kid's life a year ago? New school? Divorce of parents? (I assume not, just throwing out examples of stuff that might trigger a sudden change). It's good that he's got a therapist, they will hopefully be able to give you better insight.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-03-2018, 07:33 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
(09-03-2018 07:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(09-03-2018 06:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Please understand that this has zero to do with religion.

I will never impose my beliefs on my children. I was atheist when he was born and was very against him going to church or learning about "Jesus". I eased up on the issue early on as his grandmother on his mother's side is "Christian". We have briefly discussed the soul or spirit, but we do not and have not spoken about any religion or even directly about GOD.

He is 16
Ok, my bad, some of the comment read that it might be to do with that.


(09-03-2018 06:47 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  He shows interest in carpentry, but I detest the thought of him becoming a blue collar worker....I'll have to look past that. I have put him to work and am willing to again, but his whole motivation for getting money seems to be pot, as opposed to paying off his fine I have to pay for, or saving for a new phone or car or college.

The freedom I have him he has wholly exploited....this too I will have to her over... Thanks for the advice.

As far as reward for studies; I've done that since he was in school; giving him $100 dollars for straight A's on his report cards. He was a straight a student up until a year ago.

Re this bit: I get it, we all want whats best for our kids, but if he has chosen to go down a certain path, with carpentry for example, help him out in any way you can. If it's something he's good at, he can earn a whole lot of money from it, and he'll remember fondly that you encouraged him to follow his passion

With the pot stuff, try and be a bit clever about it. For example say "Look, it's not for me, but yes you can spend some money on pot.....if you do this other thing first" (The other thing being paying off his fine/saving for a car etc), and by that time, if he's no using pot, he might be so focussed on saving his money/paying things off, he'll have kind of grown out of it a bit. Not directly saying to openly give him pot, but kind of work around the idea so he is distracted by something else.

(09-03-2018 06:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Thanks again to everyone for the sound advice.

Please feel free to continue the discussion; I will see it, but have to go to work right now.

peace
Please do keep us updated Smile
I am a carpenter....a good one at that....there is little money to be made if you stay honest.

If he wishes to persue such then I will show him all I know. Shit; he can take over the business if he wants....I just wanted better for him is all. People retire from carpentry because they can no longer physically do it; not because they have managed to accrue a decent nest egg.



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09-03-2018, 07:38 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
*hugs* I'm so sorry, pops. I think the most important thing is to get him the professional help he needs with people who are skilled in dealing with all of this. I agree with others who say leave the God thing out of it at this point. I think just being a constant support in his life and making him feel loved and needed and supported is the best thing you can do in this situation as a parent (in addition to getting him the best possible help, of course). And it sounds like that is what you are doing. I also think allowing for open, nonjudgmental dialogue might also help him feel like he can be more open with his feelings on things. Possibly another idea would be for you to talk to a therapist as well, someone who could help you process all of this and give you some tools from their point of view in terms of how to best deal with the situation. I wish you and your son the best Hug
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09-03-2018, 07:43 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
(09-03-2018 07:33 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-03-2018 07:27 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Ok, my bad, some of the comment read that it might be to do with that.



Re this bit: I get it, we all want whats best for our kids, but if he has chosen to go down a certain path, with carpentry for example, help him out in any way you can. If it's something he's good at, he can earn a whole lot of money from it, and he'll remember fondly that you encouraged him to follow his passion

With the pot stuff, try and be a bit clever about it. For example say "Look, it's not for me, but yes you can spend some money on pot.....if you do this other thing first" (The other thing being paying off his fine/saving for a car etc), and by that time, if he's no using pot, he might be so focussed on saving his money/paying things off, he'll have kind of grown out of it a bit. Not directly saying to openly give him pot, but kind of work around the idea so he is distracted by something else.

Please do keep us updated Smile
I am a carpenter....a good one at that....there is little money to be made if you stay honest.

If he wishes to persue such then I will show him all I know. Shit; he can take over the business if he wants....I just wanted better for him is all. People retire from carpentry because they can no longer physically do it; not because they have managed to accrue a decent nest egg.



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That's fair enough pops. Maybe an add onto that would be "I'll show you everything I know, if you take a course on something else on the side" ? That way you're passing on your knowledge, which will be a cool father/son thing to do regardless of if he picks it up or not, and you can barter with him to basically have a back up plan.

I'm a father, although my daughter is still very young (she's 8 this year) so I'm not quite up to this stage yet. I just remember all the things I did with my dad (and later my step father) that no matter what the result was, how much I appreciated spending time with them, and them being positive towards some of my ideas. My step father actively encouraging me get into pro-wrestling was a big thing for me, which some 15 years later, I no longer do, but at the time it was awesome, and i still remember how enthusiastic he was about me doing it, and it's something I'll never forget.

Sometimes kids don't really know what they want out of anything, but need to know you are there and support them. You know this as well as I do, so focus on that for now.

"When you’re in a relationship, you’re in a band. Sometimes you sing lead and sometimes you’re on tambourine. And if you’re on tambourine, play it right. Play it with a fucking smile. ‘Cause nobody wants to see a mad tambourine player.” - Chris Rock
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09-03-2018, 08:19 AM
For free thinkers;
A barter system approach will be different for me to say the least. It seems that though I see him as a child (and always will maybe); that I must not keep him under my athority, and must treat him as an equal....these are things I will have to keep in mind and that will help him later surely. But how do I get him to want a later? How do I motivate him to see the gift of existence when to him existence itself seems worth nothing? How do you explain that to live a life of pain is better than to have never experienced any existence whatsoever? How do you explain each and every one's unique potential (which is indeed energy); to one who doesn't care for or believe in such?

How do you explain existence is a gift without connotations of a Creator being a given by such a thought?

Thanks again for the advise people....I really do appreciate it and do not mean to come off as callous or short.

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09-03-2018, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2018 08:56 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: For free thinkers;
(09-03-2018 08:19 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  How do you explain existence is a gift without connotations of a Creator being a given by such a thought?

Any given existence is such an improbable event, it's as if each of us won the lottery.

However, I consider life itself as more like a ride on a roller coaster -- with all sorts of twists, turns, ups and downs -- rather than as a gift. You just have to look at it the right way to appreciate it as a whole.
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09-03-2018, 08:40 AM
RE: For free thinkers;
(09-03-2018 08:19 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  A barter system approach will be different for me to say the least. It seems that though I see him as a child (and always will maybe); that I must not keep him under my athority, and must treat him as an equal....these are things I will have to keep in mind and that will help him later surely. But how do I get him to want a later? How do I motivate him to see the gift of existence when to him existence itself seems worth nothing? How do you explain that to live a life of pain is better than to have never experienced any existence whatsoever? How do you explain each and every one's unique potential (which is indeed energy); to one who doesn't care for or believe in such?

How do you explain existence is a gift without connotations of a Creator being a given by such a thought?

Thanks again for the advise people....I really do appreciate it and do not mean to come off as callous or short.
Not sure about anybody else, but it's been nice talking to you in a non-religious debate kind of way haha. It's nice to see you as a real person Smile

That's part of it really, the way you talk to your kids. Like I understand that my daughter is a child, but I try and treat her with the same level of respect I'd give to any adult/friend/peer that I know. I stress that of course I am her father, and it's my job to keep her on the straight/narrow whilst also making sure he doesn't die, but also that I'm her friend, and if she needs help, I'm there. I see it's a different approach, but all kids grow up some day, so you might as well start now, or else you'll be that parent who is smothering their kids, when they are 30+.

In terms of motivation, that is the hard part. It's easy to be a jobless bum, I mean we've all done it, and hell I remember doing it as well thinking "whats the point", but as you grow you understand you need money to live etc, so it's maybe a conversation you need to have with him where it's like; What are you interested in? How can we achieve that? What realistically would you need to do? etc. For example carpentry, I imagine being high doesn't really help you perform that job, so stress the point of "I'm not going to stop you....but if you want all your fingers, you should probably stop smoking pot".

My father never stopped me doing anything, but would just give me a reality check on things. For example, the first time I ever went out drinking he said to me "Look, son, have a drink....but pace yourself. When everybody else is done from pounding the beers, you'll still be good to know where you are/walk home if you need to", just little things like that. He always would point out the reality of life to me. The big thing that made me move out and get my own place? It was him saying "Look, do you want to be 18, and having to bring girls back to your mums house? No, that would be lame" And he's right, that IS super lame lol. So I said "shit, I need a job" and went out to work from the age of 16 on wards. Sounds stupid, but at those ages, stuff like that is important

On the other side of the fence, If he has serious mental health issue, then seeing a doctor will obviously also assist, (as some others have pointed out) and from experience I can say I wish I knew about my current status 15 years earlier, as I might be in a better place now than I am.

"When you’re in a relationship, you’re in a band. Sometimes you sing lead and sometimes you’re on tambourine. And if you’re on tambourine, play it right. Play it with a fucking smile. ‘Cause nobody wants to see a mad tambourine player.” - Chris Rock
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