For parents: how to raise kind kids
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24-07-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 05:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I think this too. People give money to charity because it makes them feel good.
Self-serving. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I mean the charity does get the money so it's a win-win, but I'm just sayin'.

Not only makes them feel good, but might contribute to keeping up a certain appearance, tax write offs, special gifts, or other benefits down the line. Likely a combination of many things.

Like you said, "Win-win". So no biggie.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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24-07-2014, 06:25 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
I'm not sure how the idea off being kind to people became synonymous with all the other things being thrown out. Your kids don't lose anything or any advantage in life because they are considerate of other people. Quite the opposite, I think. But, what being kind has to do with charity, taxes, and getting ahead is beyond me.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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24-07-2014, 08:21 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 06:25 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm not sure how the idea off being kind to people became synonymous with all the other things being thrown out. Your kids don't lose anything or any advantage in life because they are considerate of other people.
To each his own.

I don't know the answers, these would just be my concerns off the top of my head at prioritising and trying to instill a code of conduct from a perspective of authority. Kids need to learn to think. as they get older they become independent and will challenge your authority as a parent.
Why am I being kind to others? Because mum and dad says so, well, what would they know? Maybe I need to work out for myself how to behave.

I'm not a big fan on conditioning children, I want them to think.

In fact, I often lie to my children so that they learn to challenge me, to second guess me, to engage and develop their own critical thinking skills.
Its about life skills, independence etc rather than having nice obedient children.
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24-07-2014, 08:50 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 08:21 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm not a big fan on conditioning children

If you have children and are raising them, then you are conditioning them. It's how you condition them that is key. You lie to your children to make them think, that's conditioning. It's a plus because it teaches them to evaluate everything that is told to them. On the other hand, how you lie and what you lie about could have very negative effects on how they turn out as adults. It all depends on how you do it, but either way you are conditioning the way they see the world.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-07-2014, 08:55 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(23-07-2014 07:35 AM)Selfish Cunt Wrote:  "Children need to hear from parents that caring for others is a top priority."

Fuck off.
People are selfish cunts. If you only care about others than you're gonna get shafted in this world.
Care about yourself first so that you can achieve a position where you are than able to care for others properly.

Agreed.

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24-07-2014, 09:58 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 08:50 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 08:21 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm not a big fan on conditioning children

If you have children and are raising them, then you are conditioning them. It's how you condition them that is key. You lie to your children to make them think, that's conditioning. It's a plus because it teaches them to evaluate everything that is told to them. On the other hand, how you lie and what you lie about could have very negative effects on how they turn out as adults. It all depends on how you do it, but either way you are conditioning the way they see the world.
Yes and no.
It depends on how you look at it.
I consider teaching a kid to "be nice because it is the right thing to do" would be conditioning. They are nice because they are conditioned to behave that way. They accept that something is right because they are conditioned to think that way. They are doing as they are told/taught but they really don't know or understand why they are doing it. It is either do as I say or follow my example.

In teaching my kids to second guess my statements I am not leading by example. I am not telling them that they should second guess me or anyone else. Instead, I am lying to them and they are working out for themselves that they should not always trust what I say. They are realising that people lie, even mum and dad, and that they may need to find other methods to verify the knowledge or misinformation that I have given them. At the moment my eldest daughter has worked out that if it seems too good to be true e.g. we are off to Disneyland or I am going to put lollies in her breakfast sandwich then she immediately has doubts. If it seems mundane then she isn't so skeptical.
I am not teaching her to think this way. I am not conditioning her. She is working it out for herself. All I am doing, is lying.
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24-07-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 09:58 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 08:50 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  If you have children and are raising them, then you are conditioning them. It's how you condition them that is key. You lie to your children to make them think, that's conditioning. It's a plus because it teaches them to evaluate everything that is told to them. On the other hand, how you lie and what you lie about could have very negative effects on how they turn out as adults. It all depends on how you do it, but either way you are conditioning the way they see the world.
Yes and no.
It depends on how you look at it.
I consider teaching a kid to "be nice because it is the right thing to do" would be conditioning. They are nice because they are conditioned to behave that way. They accept that something is right because they are conditioned to think that way. They are doing as they are told/taught but they really don't know or understand why they are doing it. It is either do as I say or follow my example.

In teaching my kids to second guess my statements I am not leading by example. I am not telling them that they should second guess me or anyone else. Instead, I am lying to them and they are working out for themselves that they should not always trust what I say. They are realising that people lie, even mum and dad, and that they may need to find other methods to verify the knowledge or misinformation that I have given them. At the moment my eldest daughter has worked out that if it seems too good to be true e.g. we are off to Disneyland or I am going to put lollies in her breakfast sandwich then she immediately has doubts. If it seems mundane then she isn't so skeptical.
I am not teaching her to think this way. I am not conditioning her. She is working it out for herself. All I am doing, is lying.

Six to one, half a dozen to another....

Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-07-2014, 10:38 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 10:22 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Six to one, half a dozen to another....

Tongue
Yeah, I think the difference is significant, you may think it is either subtle or non existent.

To me, my way allows them to come to the conclusions of thinking about consequences, of thinking about their actions, of thinking critically about what people are telling them, of the value of seeking verification rather than to trust (if they feel the need)...
But I am not directly teaching them to do any of this.
Basically I want them to have their eyes open, to think and to understand.
I am not teaching them what to think or how to behave, but I am encouraging them to think and to make their own choices on how to behave, to make those choices based on their own thinking, their own values (however they develop them), their own moral beliefs (should they fall into the trap of these beliefs).
I trust that they don't need to be directly taught these things. I trust that they can work out stuff for themselves, merely by experiencing life and situations and learning how to navigate life's challenges however they see fit.
It's their life, their choices, not mine. They aren't my pets to be trained and shown off to my friends on how obedient and well mannered they are.
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25-07-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(24-07-2014 10:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-07-2014 10:22 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Six to one, half a dozen to another....

Tongue
Yeah, I think the difference is significant, you may think it is either subtle or non existent.

To me, my way allows them to come to the conclusions of thinking about consequences, of thinking about their actions, of thinking critically about what people are telling them, of the value of seeking verification rather than to trust (if they feel the need)...
But I am not directly teaching them to do any of this.
Basically I want them to have their eyes open, to think and to understand.
I am not teaching them what to think or how to behave, but I am encouraging them to think and to make their own choices on how to behave, to make those choices based on their own thinking, their own values (however they develop them), their own moral beliefs (should they fall into the trap of these beliefs).
I trust that they don't need to be directly taught these things. I trust that they can work out stuff for themselves, merely by experiencing life and situations and learning how to navigate life's challenges however they see fit.
It's their life, their choices, not mine. They aren't my pets to be trained and shown off to my friends on how obedient and well mannered they are.

I know Stevil, I was pretty much being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic, but I'm with you here. I understand the distinction you are making, even if I would still call it a form of conditioning. Pretty much just semantics not worth arguing over if you ask me, I'm not even sure why I said anything.

Carry on! Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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25-07-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: For parents: how to raise kind kids
(25-07-2014 05:19 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I know Stevil, I was pretty much being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic, but I'm with you here. I understand the distinction you are making, even if I would still call it a form of conditioning. Pretty much just semantics not worth arguing over if you ask me, I'm not even sure why I said anything.

Carry on! Thumbsup
Sorry it sounded like an argument, I was just trying to clarify my position. Not trying to get you to agree with me.
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