For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
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11-03-2014, 11:08 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 11:03 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 10:54 PM)donotwant Wrote:  By objective I mean moral or immoral in situation X.
For instance if my lying in situation X will result in person A getting tortured for 10 years with no good reason then it would be immoral for me to lie. And it would be immoral in this situation no matter in which point of time it arises(until laws of physics change so that torture is no longer painful or harmful).

If it's situationally dependent, then it is subjective. There might be an objective answer as to which option is more or less moral in any given choice; but that all depends upon the situation. Your choice and it's morality is subject to the situation at hand. We can attempt to objectively gauge our options, but the basis is still subjective. Using suffering as a gauge of morality is subjective; it is not valued by those following a form of divine command theory, they do not value suffering as a gauge of morality and it simply does not factor into what they consider moral or immoral.

Also if your lying gets the person tortured for 10 years, but your telling the truth gets them killed (and they are innocent); is your lying now still considered immoral? Or has your evaluation changed?

If the value is based on wellbeing then it is not subjective anymore.
As for killed versus tortured then I pick killed.
But you suggested different situation now.
The situation I was talking about is lying = torture. Not lying = good life.
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11-03-2014, 11:10 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 11:08 PM)donotwant Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 11:03 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If it's situationally dependent, then it is subjective. There might be an objective answer as to which option is more or less moral in any given choice; but that all depends upon the situation. Your choice and it's morality is subject to the situation at hand. We can attempt to objectively gauge our options, but the basis is still subjective. Using suffering as a gauge of morality is subjective; it is not valued by those following a form of divine command theory, they do not value suffering as a gauge of morality and it simply does not factor into what they consider moral or immoral.

Also if your lying gets the person tortured for 10 years, but your telling the truth gets them killed (and they are innocent); is your lying now still considered immoral? Or has your evaluation changed?

If the value is based on wellbeing then it is not subjective anymore.
As for killed versus tortured then I pick killed.
But you suggested different situation now.
The situation I was talking about is lying = torture. Not lying = good life.

The very act of valuing well-being is SUBJECTIVE! Facepalm

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11-03-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 11:10 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 11:08 PM)donotwant Wrote:  If the value is based on wellbeing then it is not subjective anymore.
As for killed versus tortured then I pick killed.
But you suggested different situation now.
The situation I was talking about is lying = torture. Not lying = good life.

The very act of valuing well-being is SUBJECTIVE! Facepalm
Which means you suck.
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11-03-2014, 11:15 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 11:12 PM)donotwant Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 11:10 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The very act of valuing well-being is SUBJECTIVE! Facepalm
Which means you suck.

Once again, excellent rebuttal and astounding point good sir!


Fucking moron... Drinking Beverage

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11-03-2014, 11:18 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
No seriously. If there are no creatures in the universe then morality doesn't exist. Once you put minds into the mix morality does exist. Which means it has to do with well being of the minds. If morality is not about well being then what is it?
Unless of course you redefine it like Free redefined nothing.
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11-03-2014, 11:26 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 11:18 PM)donotwant Wrote:  No seriously. If there are no creatures in the universe then morality doesn't exist. Once you put minds into the mix morality does exist. Which means it has to do with well being of the minds. If morality is not about well being then what is it?
Unless of course you redefine it like Free redefined nothing.

Morality is subjective to the existence of living creatures; therefore morality is not objective.

I generally agree with Harris' work in his Moral Landscape. I don't agree with you misusing the term 'objective'.

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11-03-2014, 11:27 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 04:55 PM)donotwant Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 04:52 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Matt Dillahunty.

'xcept, he's wrong.

Where is he wrong?

See previous 50 or so threads on the subject.

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11-03-2014, 11:30 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 06:15 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:27 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  ...
I do not believe in objective beauty.
...

Which is more beautiful ?
WHY ?

Neither.
Not my type.

He said... subjectively.

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11-03-2014, 11:34 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 11:26 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 11:18 PM)donotwant Wrote:  No seriously. If there are no creatures in the universe then morality doesn't exist. Once you put minds into the mix morality does exist. Which means it has to do with well being of the minds. If morality is not about well being then what is it?
Unless of course you redefine it like Free redefined nothing.

Morality is subjective to the existence of living creatures; therefore morality is not objective.

I generally agree with Harris' work in his Moral Landscape. I don't agree with you misusing the term 'objective'.

Ok then I accept the fact that you redefined words so that we agree.
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11-03-2014, 11:38 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 06:15 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:27 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  I do not believe in objective morality.

I do not believe in objective beauty.

But I do believe Megan Fox is more beautiful than Tilda Swinton.

How can I say such a thing without a standard of beauty?

I didn't say I had no standard of beauty. I said I had no OBJECTIVE one.

I have no objective standard of morality, either. But my subjective standard of morality is far superior to Jehovah's.

Which is more beautiful ?

[Image: Screen-shot-2012-05-15-at-6.05.43-PM.png]

or

[Image: world-most-beautiful-woman-redit__oPt.jpg]

WHY ?

I have seen videos of that first girl doing motivational speaking and she is pretty awesome. Imo the more you get to know a person, your perspective of their looks slowly changes. Or at least mine does. I find people I like to be more attractive than people I dislike.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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