For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
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12-03-2014, 03:37 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Wasn't this covered earlier?
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12-03-2014, 03:38 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
And btw evolution who are you to complain about people being sent to hell?
Yahweh has his opinion which is just as good as yours isn't it?
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12-03-2014, 03:39 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:35 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 03:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Congratulations donotwant, you've stumbled upon the core problem of morality and ethics! It's subjective! Facepalm

People have opinions and beliefs and values, and not everyone agrees about everything. That's life, get the fuck over it. All you can do is appeal to evidence and reason, but for those who do not already value these things, what can you do to convince them? Because neither is right in any cosmic all-encompassing objective sense.
That's called moral relativism. Which means there is nothing objectively wrong with torture, murder, slavery and anything else for that matter as long as majority thinks it is so.

There is nothing objectively wrong (immoral at all times and all places for all beings and all reasons), there is nothing objectively right (moral at all times and all places for all beings and all reasons); get over it.

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12-03-2014, 03:42 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
I don't mean objective by saying that it applies in ALL situations. However for every situation there is a finite set of actions and in that set of actions there are actions which are objectively better then others. A subset of best actions which can be considered most moral.
Same goes for every situation there is a subset of morally superior actions.
I don't agree with you but I don't blame you since the moral argument was the one which kept me theist for the longest.
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12-03-2014, 03:43 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
I have seen it argued on this board that there is an objective morality to at least some degree, based on the well-being of the species and individuals therein. It has been argued that things that have a distinctly negative impact on our social structure can therefore have a negative impact on the species as a whole, thus creating a certain "objective morality" (with some wiggle room, I'm sure, but at least a ballpark objective morality).

Just reporting in. Forgot which thread I saw that in.
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12-03-2014, 03:48 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:38 AM)donotwant Wrote:  And btw evolution who are you to complain about people being sent to hell?
Yahweh has his opinion which is just as good as yours isn't it?

You fucking dumbass. I complain about it because there is no evidence of either, and if they did exist they would conflict with my own morality and ethics; which as I've stated before I can defend with evidence and reasons. It is possible, however remote, that I am wrong and that both Hell and YHWH exist. Does that mean I have to agree with his reasons for judging people? No. Is his morality objective? It doesn't appear to be. But if he cannot present sufficient evidence and reasoning to convince me of his justification, I will continue to perceive his (supposed) actions as unjust and immoral.

Does that make either of us objectively right or wrong? No. By the standards of the things I value, YHWH is a moral monster.

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12-03-2014, 03:51 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
There are many people including on this forum who are divine command theorists. Everything Yahweh says is moral and right.
Now lets say tomorrow Yahweh will show up on earth. Billions of people will say he is right. Who are you to say otherwise? On what basis? You are in the minority.
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12-03-2014, 03:52 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:42 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I don't mean objective by saying that it applies in ALL situations. However for every situation there is a finite set of actions and in that set of actions there are actions which are objectively better then others. A subset of best actions which can be considered most moral.
Same goes for every situation there is a subset of morally superior actions.
I don't agree with you but I don't blame you since the moral argument was the one which kept me theist for the longest.

Once again, playing objective multiple-choice in a system built upon subjective valuation does not make the whole framework objective; the foundation is still subjective whether you value obedience, well-being, happiness, or some other factor. For fuck's sake...

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12-03-2014, 03:53 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Is health subjective?
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12-03-2014, 03:53 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:51 AM)donotwant Wrote:  There are many people including on this forum who are divine command theorists. Everything Yahweh says is moral and right.
Now lets say tomorrow Yahweh will show up on earth. Billions of people will say he is right. Who are you to say otherwise? On what basis? You are in the minority.

Argument from authority and ad populum? How terribly convincing... Facepalm

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