For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
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12-03-2014, 03:54 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
I'm just trying to get you out of your cave dude Big Grin
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12-03-2014, 03:57 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:54 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I'm just trying to bring you out of your cave dude Big Grin

You plan to accomplish this with shitty arguments? Do you think pretending to be a bad theist troll is helping your case?

You've already moved the goal post and made and appeal to both authority and the majority. What's next, are you going to tell me you have faith you're right?

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12-03-2014, 03:58 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
No no no don't misrepresent my position. I am trying to make you use your subjective morality to explain why the majority of other people are wrong. Because if everything is so subjective then you don't have much ground.
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12-03-2014, 04:05 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:58 AM)donotwant Wrote:  No no no don't misrepresent my position. I am trying to make you use your subjective morality to explain why the majority of other people are wrong. Because if everything is so subjective then you don't have much ground.

'Right' and 'wrong' are not objective here, the state of the truth here cannot be measured like the temperature of water. All I can do is make my case, but my personal beliefs won't change the laws of the country or the state of the universe. All we can do is talk, compromise, and come to a collective agreement that most find agreeable. This is why social mores change over time.

The majority used to think homosexuality was wrong, and many did so for Biblical reasons. But they're losing the argument, more and more people are disagreeing with them and the state of the truth is changing. Homosexuality used to be almost universally held as immoral in the United States, and we are making remarkable ground in changing people's opinions; but it's just that, changing opinions. We're not altering the objective facts of reality, we're just as a society coming into a more egalitarian opinion of homosexuals that is more inclusive and progressive. I happen to agree with this, but I don't pretend like I'm right in any sort of supremely objective sense.

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12-03-2014, 04:08 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Is health subjective?
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12-03-2014, 04:13 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:42 AM)donotwant Wrote:  However for every situation there is a finite set of actions and in that set of actions there are actions which are objectively better then others. A subset of best actions which can be considered most moral.
Same goes for every situation there is a subset of morally superior actions.
I disagree.

Morality has no meaning outside the confines of the minds that accepts these beliefs as true. Moral belief is absolutely subjective.

The agreement of disparate minds does not reveal the discovery of an objective truth but portrays the inevitable coincidental proximity of divergent perspectives be they fueled by similar values, cultures, experiences or simply being members of the same species.

Objective truth is independent of the observer, independent of the observer's past experiences. Objective truth does not require proximity. Objective truth only requires an object method of discovery which holds for all observers not just a coincidental few.
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12-03-2014, 04:14 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Stevil is health subjective?
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12-03-2014, 04:14 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 03:42 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I don't mean objective by saying that it applies in ALL situations.
...

I do. I think you're being a semantical-relativist.

(12-03-2014 03:42 AM)donotwant Wrote:  However for every situation there is a finite set of actions and in that set of actions there are actions which are objectively subjectively better then others.


Fixt!

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12-03-2014, 04:17 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 04:14 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 03:42 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I don't mean objective by saying that it applies in ALL situations.
...

I do. I think you're being a semantical-relativist.

(12-03-2014 03:42 AM)donotwant Wrote:  However for every situation there is a finite set of actions and in that set of actions there are actions which are objectively subjectively better then others.


Fixt!

Dude you just don't get it.
Imagine chess board with a position. In this position there is a number of best moves for winning the game.
Now let's imagine another position on a chess board.
Guess what another set of moves are the best moves.
Relativist would say that all moves are equally valid which is not true.
But I never implied that one action should be taken for every situation.
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12-03-2014, 04:19 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 04:14 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Stevil is health subjective?
It can be sometimes.
e.g. a healthy person can be considered overweight by some or too skinny by some.

But there are certainly some objective measurements that can be made.
e.g. a high temperature can be a clear indicator of lack of health.
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