For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
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12-03-2014, 06:42 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 06:42 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I hate this dichotomy with morality being either some absolute objective standard or "subjective" as if anything goes. Atheists are often accused by fundamentalist theists with the "all is permitted" stance by quoting Ivan Karamazov: "If God is dead, all is permitted" - this is sheer nonsense.
This misconception stems from the fact that people think that subjective means "anything goes".

Subjective just means that it is not absolute but that doesn't render it completely meaningless it is still very much important.

In all reality there is only one type of morality and that is subject to change.. like always lol

If we had an "Objective" morality women&homosexuals would have never got equal human rights.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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12-03-2014, 06:43 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Ok then let's let people judge which one of us is right.
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12-03-2014, 06:45 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 06:48 AM by donotwant.)
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 06:42 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 06:42 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I hate this dichotomy with morality being either some absolute objective standard or "subjective" as if anything goes. Atheists are often accused by fundamentalist theists with the "all is permitted" stance by quoting Ivan Karamazov: "If God is dead, all is permitted" - this is sheer nonsense.
This misconception stems from the fact that people think that subjective means "anything goes".

Subjective just means that it is not absolute but that doesn't render it completely meaningless it is still very much important.

In all reality there is only one type of morality and that is subject to change.. like always lol

If we had an "Objective" morality women&homosexuals would have never got equal human rights.

Ah. You have different definition of objective than I do.
Just because it's objective doesn't mean people can't be wrong. Just like a map. If map is partially accurate doesn't mean it can't get more accurate. But the landscape is true and depends solely on the laws under which the universe and creatures within it operate.

For instance universe was the same 2000 years ago and it is same now. But we understand it much better. Same with morality. There is landscape and we navigated very badly on it. But now we are getting closer to the peak.
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12-03-2014, 06:53 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 06:43 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Ok then let's let people judge which one of us is right.

Sure, after you've jumped across a few different questions because you didn't like my answers. The sad part is I get the feeling that you think you've won some sort of victory by getting me to 'admit' that it's all just competing opinions.

donotwant Wrote:For instance universe was the same 2000 years ago and it is same now.

Weeping

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12-03-2014, 06:56 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 06:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
donotwant Wrote:For instance universe was the same 2000 years ago and it is same now.

Weeping

What? The laws are still the same. The constants are still the same. A little bit of expansion doesn't change much. You're a newb.
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12-03-2014, 07:04 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 06:56 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 06:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Weeping

What? The laws are still the same. The constants are still the same. A little bit of expansion doesn't change much. You're a newb.

A 'little' bit of expansion is a change. Our planet is different (look at human expansion), the sun is different (how much mass has it lost in 2000 years converting Hydrogen into energy?), the moon is different (didn't have a few Apollo landers and footprints on it back then), the other planets are different (you know, before Jupiter was hit with comet shoemaker-levy 9), most everything in our solar system has changed in some way over the last 2000 years; and there is every reason to think the same of the universe.

Newb indeed... Weeping

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12-03-2014, 07:10 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Yeah but burning people alive was wrong 2000 years ago and it's wrong today. Because consequences of burning people alive are more or less the same.
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12-03-2014, 07:19 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 07:23 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 07:10 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Yeah but burning people alive was wrong 2000 years ago and it's wrong today. Because consequences of burning people alive are more or less the same.

Unless you're under the impression (and I'd argue it's an evidently false one) that they are witches and need to be destroyed in fire for the safety of the community at large; then burning someone alive can be justified from a certain perspective. Burning people alive isn't objectively wrong in any all encompassing cosmic sense (if we live long enough, it will happen to the Earth itself and all life on it when the Sun reaches it's Red Giant stage and engulfs the planet in it's corona). Those that value reasoning and evidence however find the old justification for burning witches alive to be less than compelling, and indeed downright barbaric and ignorant; fortunately we have far better access to information than our forefathers did. Our morality only extends to the boundaries of our knowledge, and this is why we generally don't consider animals to be moral agents; most of them (with some exceptions like the great apes and dolphins) seemingly lack the necessary processing power and knowledge to make moral decisions as we understand them.

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12-03-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 07:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 07:10 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Yeah but burning people alive was wrong 2000 years ago and it's wrong today. Because consequences of burning people alive are more or less the same.

Unless you're under the impression (and I'd argue it's an evidently false one) that they are witches and need to be destroyed in fire for the safety of the community at large; then burning someone alive can be justified from a certain perspective. Burning people alive isn't objectively wrong in any all encompassing cosmic sense (if we live long enough, it will happen to the Earth itself and all life on it when the Sun reaches it's Red Giant stage and engulfs the planet in it's corona). Those that value reasoning and evidence however find the old justification for burning witches alive to be less than compelling, and indeed downright barbaric and ignorant; fortunately we have far better access to information than our forefathers did.

I mean what they did was wrong regardless of what they were thinking.
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12-03-2014, 07:29 AM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(12-03-2014 07:21 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(12-03-2014 07:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Unless you're under the impression (and I'd argue it's an evidently false one) that they are witches and need to be destroyed in fire for the safety of the community at large; then burning someone alive can be justified from a certain perspective. Burning people alive isn't objectively wrong in any all encompassing cosmic sense (if we live long enough, it will happen to the Earth itself and all life on it when the Sun reaches it's Red Giant stage and engulfs the planet in it's corona). Those that value reasoning and evidence however find the old justification for burning witches alive to be less than compelling, and indeed downright barbaric and ignorant; fortunately we have far better access to information than our forefathers did.

I mean what they did was wrong regardless of what they were thinking.


Okay, so I just want to make sure. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now, regardless of the specific situation?


(12-03-2014 05:38 AM)donotwant Wrote:  For 100 time I am not talking about applying same rule for all situations. I mean that in specific situation X some actions are objectively better than others.

Yeah, what was that again? I can't hear you over the sound of your raging hypocrisy! Laugh out load

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