For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
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11-03-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
Shimmy and Miss Thang keep ignoring me, I wonder why.

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11-03-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:13 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I don't believe in objective morality, I do, however, believe that majority of humans share a basic moral sense.

I would agree! Smile

Then it would seem the cause would be where we differ.

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11-03-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Shimmy and Miss Thang keep ignoring me, I wonder why.

What have I ignored? I apologize if I missed something you said.
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11-03-2014, 02:18 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
I believe that a good case could be made for an objective secular morality.

Matt Dilahunty, has a very good lecture on this. Google "superiority of secular morality".

But here are the bullet points:

1. Morality in practice concerns the well being of others.
2. We all live in the same physical universe, subject to the same physical laws, inhabiting the same human bodies.
3. For the most part we can agree, that for our own well being, life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery.
4. Based on the fact that I prefer all of the above for my well being, it is easy for me to determine that the vast majority of other conscious beings prefer the same for their own well being.
5. Combined with a bit of empathy, and the fact that I wouldn't want to live in a society where my well being is likely ti be I am likely to be murdered, made to endure pain, made to be enslaved, etc, I do not do those to other people.

It is objective because the same things that harm my well being, harm your well being, and harm the well being of other humans.
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11-03-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:17 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Shimmy and Miss Thang keep ignoring me, I wonder why.

What have I ignored? I apologize if I missed something you said.

Post #24.

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11-03-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:18 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  I believe that a good case could be made for an objective secular morality.

Matt Dilahunty, has a very good lecture on this. Google "superiority of secular morality".

But here are the bullet points:

1. Morality in practice concerns the well being of others.
2. We all live in the same physical universe, subject to the same physical laws, inhabiting the same human bodies.
3. For the most part we can agree, that for our own well being, life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery.
4. Based on the fact that I prefer all of the above for my well being, it is easy for me to determine that the vast majority of other conscious beings prefer the same for their own well being.
5. Combined with a bit of empathy, and the fact that I wouldn't want to live in a society where my well being is likely ti be I am likely to be murdered, made to endure pain, made to be enslaved, etc, I do not do those to other people.

It is objective because the same things that harm my well being, harm your well being, and harm the well being of other humans.

So your argument if similar to Harris', appealing to some idea of 'human flourishing/well-being'.

I don't buy that. I don't think morality is an object, but an illusion, by way of evolution, to promote survival. That is its only means and purpose.

But it is not metaphysical, or even physical.
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11-03-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 01:38 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Shimmy, are you a deist? Are you lookingforanswers? Smile

I think I am a deist, from my understanding of that term.
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11-03-2014, 02:26 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:23 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:18 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  I believe that a good case could be made for an objective secular morality.

Matt Dilahunty, has a very good lecture on this. Google "superiority of secular morality".

But here are the bullet points:

1. Morality in practice concerns the well being of others.
2. We all live in the same physical universe, subject to the same physical laws, inhabiting the same human bodies.
3. For the most part we can agree, that for our own well being, life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery.
4. Based on the fact that I prefer all of the above for my well being, it is easy for me to determine that the vast majority of other conscious beings prefer the same for their own well being.
5. Combined with a bit of empathy, and the fact that I wouldn't want to live in a society where my well being is likely ti be I am likely to be murdered, made to endure pain, made to be enslaved, etc, I do not do those to other people.

It is objective because the same things that harm my well being, harm your well being, and harm the well being of other humans.

So your argument if similar to Harris', appealing to some idea of 'human flourishing/well-being'.

I don't buy that. I don't think morality is an object, but an illusion, by way of evolution, to promote survival. That is its only means and purpose.

But it is not metaphysical, or even physical.

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11-03-2014, 02:30 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:23 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  I don't buy that. I don't think morality is an object, but an illusion, by way of evolution, to promote survival. That is its only means and purpose.

So, if the exact some things hurt my well being and ability to flourish as hurt yours, how is that an illusion

Objective - Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings.

How is it not objective that you and I would both like to go on living, not be tortured, not have our stuff stolen?

Quote:But it is not metaphysical, or even physical.

Of course it's not metaphysical. But how is it not physical? Do you and I both want to avoid torture or murder?
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11-03-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: For those atheists that believe in objective morality, can you prove it?
(11-03-2014 02:24 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:38 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Shimmy, are you a deist? Are you lookingforanswers? Smile

I think I am a deist, from my understanding of that term.

Thanks. You're so close to being an atheist, just take off the training wheels and be free.

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