For those that have debated with me...
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27-06-2012, 08:46 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(25-06-2012 11:17 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  Just curious, you might have mentioned this elsewhere (I'm too lazy to keep up with everything that goes on here @ TTA Big Grin), but what would you say could be proof that your theology is wrong? In other words, what would be evidence that you're wrong?

Many things.

33K denominations.
Why would God create to destroy?
Inconsistencies in the Bible when taken literally.
Christians becoming atheists.
My own doubts.
Pretty much what you atheists say and do to debunk religion.

However, it boils down to my faith. God has given me faith, and I can't deny it.

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27-06-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(27-06-2012 08:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ... and I can't deny it.
That's the problem with you yanks, Oprah, Dr Phil et al have taught you that "denial" is a bad thing!

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27-06-2012, 08:52 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
I learned this past Saturday at FreeOK 2012 in Tulsa that we are about 75% Virus and Bacteria, as far as what our DNA/RNA is made up of. So your god made smart viruses, if you look at it from outside the box.
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27-06-2012, 08:54 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(26-06-2012 06:07 AM)Thomas Wrote:  I would suggest you hit Kierkegaard more. His rejection of organized religion and the leap of faith argument is interesting.
Not that I agree with him, I think he was insane, but his drive to find truth was impressive. I believe in the end all Kierkegaard found was madness.
It's all about the process of rationalizing beliefs as facts. The leap of faith is an absurd position and Kierkegaard admitted as such, but proposed this as the only way. All other arguments for god were pointless.

I'll look into it. Thanks!

Quote:"The problem we got here is a failure to communicate".
As atheists are focused on rational arguments for reality, any religious position is not compatible. Belief in a god is not rational, so it is rejected. When you start with the assumed fact that "god is real" the smart atheist walks away. There is no reason to have a conversation at that point other than to ask the question of how you came to that conclusion. The only answer is "leap of faith". Then all the atheists will say is that a "leap of faith" is irrational.

Something I know well.

Quote:You cannot win over the atheist with irrational arguments. So let me ask you some questions back. Why do you attempt the seemingly impossible? Do you believe that god has commanded you to engage atheists and set them back on the right track? Have you been successful? How many conversions to Christianity can you claim? Have you convinced anyone that your conversion from atheism is true? You don't have to answer to me or anyone else on this forum. These are questions for you to answer to yourself.
I hope you find what you're looking for.

1) I don't know. I enjoy hearing POVs from different people.
2) Engage? Yes? Set on right track? No. I'm just here. Plain and simple. No hidden motives.
3) N/A
4) None that I know of.
5) Honestly? I don't really care. I'm not trying to convince anyone of my past. If you choose to not believe me, that's fine. If you choose to believe, that's fine too. It has no bearing on me whatsoever.

lol, I have to answer... it's just something in me... don't know why...

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27-06-2012, 08:56 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(27-06-2012 08:31 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I am actually quite skeptical. I've admitted that my belief makes no logical sense; however, I can't deny it: based on my experience.
Maybe, but you are not applying your skepticism to your experience.
Consider optical illusions or conjurer's tricks. One's experience of these viewed uncritically leads one to false beliefs. They are tricks played on the brain by the brain.
I suggest your religious experience is in that category.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-06-2012, 08:58 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(26-06-2012 10:13 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  We haven't debated much, but that's primarily due to my dislike of sitting around talking about nothing, but I've jabbed you from time to time and we have talked about quite a few discussions.

The largest flaw I can see in your debating is actually a strength. You are constantly studying and learning and seeing what things make the most sense to you. You are very open to accepting arguments from the opponent. BUT, you believe that everything has been predetermined and that what happens to you in the end is inevitable. You are too open to intellectual thought and searching for the truth to truly accept that everything is predetermined. You make a lot of good arguments and have made a highly rational argument in many parts of your discussion, but none of that builds credibility to your personal beliefs. You hurt your own view of theology by all of your admissions and the debates you get into. Don't stop allowing alternate views to help you learn, but really look at the way that you learn and the predeterministic philosophy you have and give me a serious answer as to how these can logically be congruent. Don't give me the bullshit dualism argument because contradictions are the basis of determining how logical a view is.

You're great at debating things and have a lot of good views, but you're not generally defending your own views. Most of the arguments I've heard from you betray plenty of your own views which can be ok, but aren't you here suggesting you have truth? I know that you have no concern of winning souls, but your general arguments within this forum suggest that you don't care to be right. You have a lot of logic on you side, but you also allow a multitude of contradictions.

I realize that sometimes I disappear from arguments, for me this is not the most important activity, if we were in person I wouln't run away, but religion is not my interest and often I don't remember to look back to a discussion I had days ago. If you do want to discuss things with me though and I ever kind of disappear from the argument just send me a message. If you really want my answer beyond what I type on my own I'll give it. Hope something in this helps, and if you really think I have a lot to contribute just let me know.

Thanks for that Lilith.

Would be so kind as to point out my contradictions, so that I can address them?

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27-06-2012, 08:59 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(26-06-2012 10:36 AM)kineo Wrote:  
(25-06-2012 04:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm always looking for positive criticism and ways to better my approach and skills in debating.

A common gripe with atheists when it comes to the big boy theist debaters is that they are being "inconsistent" or "dishonest" or "using mental gymnastics" or something else like this.

Which negative traits do I use and need to lose?

Do you feel my theology is consistent and reconciled?

Am I fair in my arguments?

I think you're fair, but like others said- if we're starting from a theological position and assuming that there is a god and that god is your God. But like Thomas said- that's a leap of faith that seems unnecessary and not rational.

When it comes to your position on God, I think you've got to base that on some major assumptions that I'm not willing to allow without some good solid reasoning. But you are consistent in it.

I will say that what I've read of your debates (I haven't read all of them) you've been steadfast, calm, and mostly held back the snark I'm sure you felt like responding with many times.

You ARE a rational thinker, but with your own cognitive dissonance when it comes to the starting point of belief in the existence of a god or any gods and then furthered by faith that the god that you believe in is who you believe "Him" to be. Getting past those two major hurdles, I think that you are an otherwise consistently rational thinker.

Thanks, kineo.

And yes, I've held back the snark many, many times.

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27-06-2012, 09:01 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(27-06-2012 06:46 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi KC...good on you for be willing to cop some criticism. Here's some more, seeing you asked for it.

People like your good self no FUCK ALL about the origins of your beliefs.

I actually know and understand a good bit. But, thanks.

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27-06-2012, 09:02 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(27-06-2012 08:40 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 08:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not seeking validation.

I'm seeking a way to better myself.

Just because all of you don't believe the same as me, doesn't mean I can't glean advice and betterment from you.

That post was me simulating mind of another in mind - walking in another's shoes, if you will - brought about by other members objections to "god's plan." In that light, I saw they had a point. But you know I luf you. Wink

Oh I know.

<3

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27-06-2012, 09:03 AM
RE: For those that have debated with me...
(27-06-2012 08:52 AM)Flying Spaghetti Monster Wrote:  I learned this past Saturday at FreeOK 2012 in Tulsa that we are about 75% Virus and Bacteria, as far as what our DNA/RNA is made up of. So your god made smart viruses, if you look at it from outside the box.

Okay?

Not sure how to take this.

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