For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
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11-03-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  By using the language "reject the existance of ..." it implicity implies there is something that exists to be rejected.

Not necessarily.

But that was the whole point, considering that so many that reject the existence of Jesus, PRESUME the existence of Socrates or Archimedes based on similarly limited information.

It's a matter of consistency.
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11-03-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:59 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Yes, it does. I reject your fairy stories about the "existence of jeebus", but here you are again deliberately conflating and equivocating your fairy stories with the truth claims that they make.

You continue to prove that you misunderstood my OP.

Not at all.


Quote:My point was not so much about Jesus as it was about the consistency of validation of historical figures in antiquity.

You can apply this to anyone besides Jesus. But Jesus is presumed by many to be fictional with the same limited information that they use to presume Socrates was real.


Not at all. No one is claiming that Socrates possessed extraordinary magic powers. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

And here you are, arguing that your jeebus character is real.

Checkmate.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-03-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  My point was not so much about Jesus as it was about the consistency of validation of historical figures in antiquity.

You can apply this to anyone besides Jesus. But Jesus is presumed by many to be fictional with the same limited information that they use to presume Socrates was real.

And while I absolutely accept the existence of such people as Alexander and Julius Caesar, I don't think they were Gods.

So while one might accept the existence of a historical Jesus figure - though the evidence is not equal to that for many other figures - that has nothing to do with any of the beliefs or suppositions of Christianity.

So there's that.

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11-03-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:08 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  My point was not so much about Jesus as it was about the consistency of validation of historical figures in antiquity.

You can apply this to anyone besides Jesus. But Jesus is presumed by many to be fictional with the same limited information that they use to presume Socrates was real.

And while I absolutely accept the existence of such people as Alexander and Julius Caesar, I don't think they were Gods.

So while one might accept the existence of a historical Jesus figure - though the evidence is not equal to that for many other figures - that has nothing to do with any of the beliefs or suppositions of Christianity.

So there's that.

Indeed. I never contested that.
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11-03-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Not at all. No one is claiming that Socrates possessed extraordinary magic powers.

But they claim (or presume) he existed.

(11-03-2014 02:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  And here you are, arguing that your jeebus character is real.

The more you say something doesn't make it anymore true.
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11-03-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:06 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  By using the language "reject the existance of ..." it implicity implies there is something that exists to be rejected.

Not necessarily.

But that was the whole point, considering that so many that reject the existence of Jesus, PRESUME the existence of Socrates or Archimedes based on similarly limited information.

It's a matter of consistency.
Irrelevant!!!

First off, I could not give a shit if Socrates or Archimedes existed. ...so...there's that...

And yes...necessarily...in fact necessarily indeed!
You attempt to hide your actual point in a cloak of invisibility of plausible deniability. But the emperor has no clothes, or such cloak for that matter, and you are standing naked before us all. Exposed, though you deny it, only unconvincing fooling yourself. What’s more, we can see your muffin top too...

...
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11-03-2014, 02:17 PM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2014 02:24 PM by rampant.a.i..)
For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:59 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Yes, it does. I reject your fairy stories about the "existence of jeebus", but here you are again deliberately conflating and equivocating your fairy stories with the truth claims that they make.

You continue to prove that you misunderstood my OP.

My point was not so much about Jesus as it was about the consistency of validation of historical figures in antiquity.

You can apply this to anyone besides Jesus. But Jesus is presumed by many to be fictional with the same limited information that they use to presume Socrates was real.

That's not quite accurate. We have direct source material from Socrates and other figures in antiquity. We do not have direct writings from Jesus.

These figures also lack extraordinary, mythological claims: Miracles performed while alive, virgin birth, rising from the dead.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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11-03-2014, 02:19 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:17 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Irrelevant!!!

First off, I could not give a shit if Socrates or Archimedes existed. ...so...there's that...

Okay, fine. I would (kind of) agree. So you don't care about the existence of Jesus either then, correct?

If that is the case, then you and I are on the same page.
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11-03-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:17 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:03 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  You continue to prove that you misunderstood my OP.

My point was not so much about Jesus as it was about the consistency of validation of historical figures in antiquity.

You can apply this to anyone besides Jesus. But Jesus is presumed by many to be fictional with the same limited information that they use to presume Socrates was real.

That's not quite accurate. We have direct source material from Socrates and other figures in antiquity. We do not have direct writings from Jesus.

Most writings about Socrates or Archimedes were done so 70+ years after their supposed deaths.
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11-03-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:20 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:17 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  That's not quite accurate. We have direct source material from Socrates and other figures in antiquity. We do not have direct writings from Jesus.

Most writings about Socrates or Archimedes were done so 70+ years after their supposed deaths.

MOST writings...

As opposed to ALL writings in Jesus's case.

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