For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
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11-03-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:22 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:20 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  Most writings about Socrates or Archimedes were done so 70+ years after their supposed deaths.

MOST writings...

As opposed to ALL writings in Jesus's case.

I should have said the EARLIEST writings for Socrates and Archimedes.
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11-03-2014, 02:31 PM
For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:20 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:17 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  That's not quite accurate. We have direct source material from Socrates and other figures in antiquity. We do not have direct writings from Jesus.

Most writings about Socrates or Archimedes were done so 70+ years after their supposed deaths.

And yet we have a play produced by Aristophanes during Socrates lifetime, with a record of Socrates attending the play.

Also: Note the use of "Most," when there is no written testimony of Jesus during his lifetime, nor any record of his life kept by historians during his lifetime.

That alone makes the case for the existence of Socrates stronger than that of Jesus.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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11-03-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:25 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:22 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  MOST writings...

As opposed to ALL writings in Jesus's case.

I should have said the EARLIEST writings for Socrates and Archimedes.

I actually don't care about Socrates' existence, so none of this is skin off my nose.

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11-03-2014, 02:35 PM
For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:32 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:25 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  I should have said the EARLIEST writings for Socrates and Archimedes.

I actually don't care about Socrates' existence, so none of this is skin off my nose.

That's not the point: Point was she mischaracterized the amount of historical evidence for Socrates as equivalent to Jesus, when that is simply not the case.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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11-03-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:32 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:25 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  I should have said the EARLIEST writings for Socrates and Archimedes.

I actually don't care about Socrates' existence, so none of this is skin off my nose.

Well, but the body of work attributed to him is foundational to all subsequent philosophy, so it's not totally irrelevant.
Tongue

But since those ideas exist regardless of their attribution, and since furthermore no one is claiming belief in Socrates's divinity is the only route to salvation...

What the fuck was the point of this thread, anyway?

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11-03-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:13 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Not at all. No one is claiming that Socrates possessed extraordinary magic powers.

But they claim (or presume) he existed.

There is nothing extraordinary about that, or any claim of his existence.
There is PLENTY extraordinary about claims of your jeebus' existence.

Quote:
(11-03-2014 02:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  And here you are, arguing that your jeebus character is real.

The more you say something doesn't make it anymore true.

*any more

The more you deny the obvious doesn't make it any less true or obvious.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-03-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:19 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:17 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Irrelevant!!!

First off, I could not give a shit if Socrates or Archimedes existed. ...so...there's that...

Okay, fine. I would (kind of) agree. So you don't care about the existence of Jesus either then, correct?


We care about fucking trolls and apolotards and evangelitards like you not pushing your bullshit on us and our children, so there's that.

Quote:If that is the case, then you and I are on the same page.


You are a fucking liar.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-03-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:43 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  We care about fucking trolls and apolotards and evangelitards like you not pushing your bullshit on us and our children, so there's that.

I have a child, and I will not impose any such belief on him. I will allow him to come to his own conclusions on the subject.
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11-03-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 12:27 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 12:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  If only there were some way to quantify that.

Since Lightvader has started a total of 0 threads about religion in his ten months here as compared to your 5 in ten days here, I'm'a call troll.

Prove me wrong.

I am a recently former Christians who is quite curious about atheism, so I came here to speak my mind and have my thoughts challenged, to help me better my understanding of these things.

Alright, I think this actually explains quite a lot. I'm in the same boat, actually. Some background... I'm a fairly recent hard-fundy christian who went through some really shocking things. I won't go there right now, only because I've mentioned some of it elsewhere and it becomes exhausting.

I've found out a lot by reading through both current threads and browsing through past threads on certain topics. I recommend doing the same for three reasons:

1) Lots of questions answered that you might not have even known you had.
2) A feel for the people here, who they are, their lines of reasoning (which is generally quite good, I've found), why they feel the way they do, etc.
3) Avoiding some unintentional behaviors that might unfortunately make you appear very very similar to actual trolls in their first stages.

Disclaimer: if you prove me wrong and turn out to be a troll, making my easing up into a wrong move.... screw you.
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11-03-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(11-03-2014 02:50 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:43 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  We care about fucking trolls and apolotards and evangelitards like you not pushing your bullshit on us and our children, so there's that.

I have a child, and I will not impose any such belief on him. I will allow him to come to his own conclusions on the subject.

....after you delude "him" with your fairy stories...

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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