For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
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10-03-2014, 01:01 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 12:26 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:23 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You have called the gospels "evidence." I want to know why.

In the sense that they're no greater than the evidence for either Archimedes or Socrates.

So what? I happen to agree. Let's discuss the "evidence " for Jesus. I'll repeat my question. Who do YOU think wrote the "evidence" for Jesus, when and why? Surely, as a believing Christian, you must comment on this!
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10-03-2014, 01:02 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 12:53 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:39 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I've seen this same sort of bullshit tactic in Buddhist circles, where mahayanists who believe in all sorts of fairy tales (like the "lotus sutra", when cornered, say "Well, the Nikayas were transmitted orally for some time, how do you know that the Buddha even existed?". The answer, of course, is that if he didn't exist, the secular teachings attributed to him still stand on their own, and in fact if it were shown that he did not exist, that destroys all of the superstitious/magical claims made about him and what then do we have left? His secular teachings.

These assholes don't think this shit through.

So your position is similar to DemonicLemon's, in that attribution is of sole importance?

I didn't say that.


Strawman much? Hobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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10-03-2014, 01:04 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 01:02 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:53 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  So your position is similar to DemonicLemon's, in that attribution is of sole importance?

I didn't say that.


Strawman much? Hobo

Did you not notice the question mark at the end of my sentence?
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10-03-2014, 01:04 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 12:57 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:54 AM)englishrose Wrote:  You're missing the point here.
Even if Jesus were shown to have existed, it doesn't mean he was anything more than a great magician.
It doesn't really matter whether Socrates or Archimedes existed as no-one says they were divine beings and people do not do ridiculous things in their names.
Let's say they didn't exist. So what? Does that make your Jesus man any more legitimate?

My point is purely in regards to his existence, and not his claimed abilities.


The existence of this supposed person is inextricably bound to the abilities claimed. Without them, such existence is meaningless.


(10-03-2014 01:04 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 01:02 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I didn't say that.


Strawman much? Hobo

Did you not notice the question mark at the end of my sentence?

Yeah. Doesn't mean anything.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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10-03-2014, 01:05 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 01:01 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:26 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  In the sense that they're no greater than the evidence for either Archimedes or Socrates.

So what? I happen to agree. Let's discuss the "evidence " for Jesus. I'll repeat my question. Who do YOU think wrote the "evidence" for Jesus, when and why? Surely, as a believing Christian, you must comment on this!

I am not Christian.
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10-03-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 01:04 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  The existence of this supposed person is inextricably bound to the abilities claimed. Without them, such existence is meaningless.

The religion of Christianity would be meaningless, yes. But his existence, and his impact on our culture, is not.


(10-03-2014 01:04 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  Yeah. Doesn't mean anything.

It means I was asking you a question.
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10-03-2014, 01:09 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 01:05 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 01:01 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  So what? I happen to agree. Let's discuss the "evidence " for Jesus. I'll repeat my question. Who do YOU think wrote the "evidence" for Jesus, when and why? Surely, as a believing Christian, you must comment on this!

I am not Christian.

If that were the case, then why are you pushing this tired and hackneyed xtard-apologetics line of shit.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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10-03-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 01:09 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 01:05 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  I am not Christian.

If that were the case, then why are you pushing this tired and hackneyed xtard-apologetics line of shit.

I am interested in history, and historical consistency.
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10-03-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
My suspicion is that someone called Jesus did exist. I don't for one moment think that he was anything other than a human being. He probably had some royal heritage that was no longer recognised because of Roman occupation, wandered off and discovered Buddhism. He then brought back it back to his homeland and amended it so that it fitted in with the existing religion. This gave rise to Christianity.

There is no reason to take it any further and start believing in miracles or that the Bible is a word of a god. It is a historical document written about a philosophy that was already in existence.

You don't have to 'reject the existence of Jesus'. But nor should you have to care either, in the same way that I don't concern myself with whether Archimedes and Socrates existed. At least with some of the Greek philosophers and mathematicians it is interesting to know about in terms of learning the history of a scientific investigation.

This thread has little to do with atheism.
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10-03-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: For those who reject the existence of Jesus...
(10-03-2014 12:57 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:54 AM)englishrose Wrote:  You're missing the point here.
Even if Jesus were shown to have existed, it doesn't mean he was anything more than a great magician.
It doesn't really matter whether Socrates or Archimedes existed as no-one says they were divine beings and people do not do ridiculous things in their names.
Let's say they didn't exist. So what? Does that make your Jesus man any more legitimate?

My point is purely in regards to his existence, and not his claimed abilities.

But you are the one making the comparison with Socrates and Archimedes.
Again, so he existed and they didn't. So what? Is that a reason to hang a whole religion on? To worship him as the son of god?
I don't really see the point you're trying to make.
Sorry.
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