Forced Church.
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26-04-2013, 10:48 PM
RE: Forced Church.
I'm on your page. What's going on in these people's minds. Right now I feel like I'm inn an alien world. It's just, this is it? This is the world of religions? On the not quite extreme but fringe you've got the megaphone saving street preachers, next up you've got locking people up in rooms so that they're forced to listen to messages against there safety and rights, and on the extreme you've got killings of innocent children, and adults. I am definitely feeling like this world is of alien origin right now.

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26-04-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: Forced Church.
What a shocker....another state allowing school led Prayer...first missouri, then Oklahoma, then South Carolina....Mississippi and Louisiana are the next on my list.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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26-04-2013, 11:37 PM
RE: Forced Church.
I'm just glad it's not Kansas, for a change. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-04-2013, 11:58 PM
RE: Forced Church.
Do not despair my children.

One click away from the OP article was this...


... twenty quotes from the Founding Fathers and other great Americans that show that the United States was not founded as a "Christian Nation."

1. "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"- Thomas Jefferson

2. "The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs." -Thomas Jefferson

3. "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one- Thomas Jefferson

4. "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."- Thomas Jefferson

5. "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."- Thomas Jefferson

6. "Lighthouses are more useful than churches."- Ben Franklin

7. "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."- Ben Franklin

8. "I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."- Ben Franklin

9. "In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it."- Ben Franklin

10. "This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it"- John Adams

11. "The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.'- Thomas Paine

12. "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."- Thomas Paine

13. "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine

14. "Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies."- Thomas Paine

15. "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."- Thomas Paine

16. "It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene.”- Thomas Paine

17. "Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."- George Washington

18. "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession."- Abraham Lincoln

19. "It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others."- James Madison

20. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."- James Madison


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27-04-2013, 12:07 AM
RE: Forced Church.
(26-04-2013 11:58 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Do not despair my children.

One click away from the OP article was this...


... twenty quotes from the Founding Fathers and other great Americans that show that the United States was not founded as a "Christian Nation."

1. "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"- Thomas Jefferson

2. "The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs." -Thomas Jefferson

3. "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one- Thomas Jefferson

4. "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."- Thomas Jefferson

5. "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."- Thomas Jefferson

6. "Lighthouses are more useful than churches."- Ben Franklin

7. "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."- Ben Franklin

8. "I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."- Ben Franklin

9. "In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it."- Ben Franklin

10. "This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it"- John Adams

11. "The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.'- Thomas Paine

12. "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."- Thomas Paine

13. "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine

14. "Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies."- Thomas Paine

15. "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."- Thomas Paine

16. "It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene.”- Thomas Paine

17. "Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."- George Washington

18. "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession."- Abraham Lincoln

19. "It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others."- James Madison

20. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."- James Madison


Yes it appears that we had far more sensible men in this country of mine then from what we have accumulated now. It's interesting that many Christians fall back on the founders when the most well known ones either understood the issues that religion held or were flat out against it's philosophies. I have hope that the rest of the world might learn from our mistakes.

I'm in a solemn mood right now if you can't tellConfused

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27-04-2013, 12:18 AM
RE: Forced Church.
(27-04-2013 12:07 AM)Foxcanine1 Wrote:  Yes it appears that we had far more sensible men in this country of mine then from what we have accumulated now. It's interesting that many Christians fall back on the founders when the most well known ones either understood the issues that religion held or were flat out against it's philosophies. I have hope that the rest of the world might learn from our mistakes.

I'm in a solemn mood right now if you can't tellConfused

Good advice. And I think we learned from the lessons and incorporated this experience into my country's religion policies.

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27-04-2013, 12:26 AM
RE: Forced Church.
As the inhabitant of a minor player on the world stage I wonder; how did all go so terribly wrong? There was so much promise for humanity. If the battle for reason can be won in the USA, it bodes well for our planet. While I often criticize it, I do believe it our best hope. But over the past few decades I see things going in a direction that frightens me.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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