Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
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17-03-2011, 07:31 PM
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
(17-03-2011 08:30 AM)GassyKitten Wrote:  It stands to make the problem of unemployment worse, instead of better.
And what's frightening for some is that as the eyes of the U.S. government turn to the UK to see how this program works, give the income in this country that is received by those on welfare, it may be seen as a great pilot program to start here.

We already have slave labor here. They're called illegal immigrants.

Let's also mention that wages here in the US are pretty low. I don't have any info at all as to how wages for certain occupations may stack up against other countries, but I know for a fact that our benefits suck in comparison. To make people on unemployment work for even less might not be much of a stretch.

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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17-03-2011, 10:19 PM
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
Welfare to work was brought out in Missouri in 2006 I think. It didn't last very long after being proven to not be worth the effort. So they just accepted the old system again.

The whole hiring of illegal immigrants is insane, because they don't even really hide that they're breaking the law by employing them. When I worked at Target I was surprised to find our Spanish speaking maintenance crew who only works while the store is closed and hear how little they made. I don't know Spanish so I heard from others. Many jobs that could go to people wanting a job instead are delegated to illegal immigrants, because it's cheaper that way. Obviously companies that gain low wage labor in the US will take full advantage of it.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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18-03-2011, 06:44 AM
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
There are some obvious, inherent problems with the workfare idea, aren't there? I've never given the idea much thought before, but if you really think it through it probably can't work.

If you have private companies involved, then they are just going to take advantage of the cheap labor and reduce their own headcount. If you have them doing government jobs, then all you really do is increase the number of government employees. If you try to pay them some really low number, it won't be long before you'll have unions complaining this dirt cheap labor is under cutting the market (which it will be) and activist groups complaining that these people are basically slave labor (which won't be that far from the truth).

I've always thought workfare was a good idea but I it doesn't take a lot of thought to find some major problems with it. Shame. I'd still rather deal with these problems then continue to pay people to do nothing, though.

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18-03-2011, 08:00 AM
 
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
(17-03-2011 07:31 PM)trillium13 Wrote:  We already have slave labor here. They're called illegal immigrants.

Let's also mention that wages here in the US are pretty low. I don't have any info at all as to how wages for certain occupations may stack up against other countries, but I know for a fact that our benefits suck in comparison. To make people on unemployment work for even less might not be much of a stretch.

I'm going to disagree with your illegal immigrants statement. I will agree that they are being paid shit for wages, maybe even "slave wages" but the simple fact of the matter is that they have CHOSEN not to apply for immigrant status, and they have CHOSEN to come to this country and they have CHOSEN to suck up resources illegally. No one in the state is putting them to work against their will for these wages. Hell, some of them are on unemployment and welfare by receiving benefits from their children. And I am referencing the family across the street from me.

Illegal immigrants are not slaves. And their labor is not slave labor. Their labor is cheap and illegal but not slave-based.
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18-03-2011, 09:52 AM
 
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
(17-03-2011 07:31 PM)trillium13 Wrote:  
(17-03-2011 08:30 AM)GassyKitten Wrote:  It stands to make the problem of unemployment worse, instead of better.
And what's frightening for some is that as the eyes of the U.S. government turn to the UK to see how this program works, give the income in this country that is received by those on welfare, it may be seen as a great pilot program to start here.

We already have slave labor here. They're called illegal immigrants.
Who have no problem being so, as they crawl, dig and climb over every obstacle in order to adopt that status.



Quote:Let's also mention that wages here in the US are pretty low. I don't have any info at all as to how wages for certain occupations may stack up against other countries, but I know for a fact that our benefits suck in comparison. To make people on unemployment work for even less might not be much of a stretch.
Dr.Salary



Per Capita Income Around The World
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18-03-2011, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2011 07:42 PM by trillium13.)
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
Don't get me wrong, I am definitely against illegal immigration, for a number of reasons that I won't get into here.

The fact is that they wouldn't come if it wasn't of benefit to them. As long as there are people willing to hire them (those people who desire to have cheap/slave labor) they will keep coming. I know people like this personally. They don't want these damn illegal messicans around, until they are looking for someone to dig ditches as their house for practically free. I think I posted a link here on the board somewhere in the forum, will go and see.
Here's the thread:

http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/show...p?tid=1620

Texans like their free labor. They're still bitter about that whole Civil War thing.

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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18-03-2011, 08:48 PM
 
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
(18-03-2011 07:37 PM)trillium13 Wrote:  Don't get me wrong, I am definitely against illegal immigration, for a number of reasons that I won't get into here.

The fact is that they wouldn't come if it wasn't of benefit to them. As long as there are people willing to hire them (those people who desire to have cheap/slave labor) they will keep coming. I know people like this personally. They don't want these damn illegal messicans around, until they are looking for someone to dig ditches as their house for practically free. I think I posted a link here on the board somewhere in the forum, will go and see.
Here's the thread:

http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/show...p?tid=1620

Texans like their free labor. They're still bitter about that whole Civil War thing.
Ah, linkage. Tongue

In truth we know from past experience, like the Corona beer ad not that many years ago that said something to the effect, Corona taking over the world as we know it. And there was the America's map,with California, Texas and New Mexico under the Mexican flag colors.

Boy did the taco chips hit the fan with that one.
And then there's the speech former President Vincente Fox gave to his people before leaving office, wherein he said it was the duty of every Mexican to reclaim that which was stolen from them years before. Meaning to occupy parts of the U.S. lost during the Mexican/American war. And that they owed it to the future to secure that reclamation with their children, because VF knew about the anchor baby clause that would let illegal parents remain here.
So, perhaps those in Texas are pissed off about the Civil War, but to this day Mexico holds a grudge about the Mexican/American war. At least if one believes it from the mouth of one with the power to say so and inspire even more invasion.

And in truth, those that hire illegals, (I'm a business owner and I'd not hire an illegal because they're cheap labor. While the farm that abuts my property was sold to a developer who constructed every McHouse there using illegal labor.

And also, I'd make the observation that the only thing that precludes the unscrupulous business owner or private citizen needing some work done, from hiring American citizens as slave labor, are the labor laws that would stand to get them arrested once someone or that laborer themselves as a means of revenge for a grievance, turned them in.

In a country where outsourcing has cut the throat of our GNP, relaxing the minimum wage requirements would do a great deal to solve the illegal's problems.
It sickens me to hear pandering excuses to enable illegals. "They only do the jobs uppity Americans won't do." Yeah, tell that to the single mother of two that can't get a job because she's deemed over qualified to survive herself and her family and then ask her if she sure wouldn't like to work in the fields part time, while the free daycare that affords that employer a tax credit, takes care of her babies till she clocks out.

And that's not a matter of "forced labor". That's a matter of adapting and overcoming what's presently crippling America, for the sake of other countries who we're suppose to pity for being "third world" and in light of that America is suppose to feel bad about being prosperous, powerful and rich so that we compromise with outsourcing that affords corporations huge tax credits, while remaining on the domestic front taxes them to extremes, so that we change all that for the sake of the bottom line that we're otherwise as a nation suppose to feel bad about. Because feeding our own is secondary to making a good impression on foreigners abroad, in the name of charity and international relations.

Yeah, I get ya. Don't get me started either. Wait, make that just let me put on the brakes right here. Tongue
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19-03-2011, 03:04 PM
RE: Forced labour for Jobseekers on dole in UK
(16-03-2011 05:41 PM)sosa Wrote:  Please don't equate communism with Nazism. They are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

Well yeah sort of, but the political spectrum is entirely bullshit. The only difference between the Nazi Empire and the Soviet Union was that the Soviets controlled local business, as the Nazis just monitored it closely.

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