Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
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26-09-2017, 08:21 AM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
(26-09-2017 06:56 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Jerry Jones just figured out a way to have his cake and eat it too.

If there is any lagit reason to protest the NFL, it would not be their labor in the players. I think the players earn every penny they get.

If one wants to make a lagit protest, it should be all the tax dollars the billionaire owners get to build free stadiums. I find it hard to believe that 32 billionaires cant pool their profits to build their own digs without blackmailing tax payers.

And I am tired of every damned new stadium being given a corporate name as if the owners and corporations are not rich enough.

But in the context of this protest, this is one time I do stand with Jerry and the players.

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26-09-2017, 08:22 AM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
(25-09-2017 08:08 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Grampa takes a knee. Smile

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I think the noblest form of patriotism is showing where you think your country does wrong and working towards making it a better place. My country right or wrong should be an obsolete statement.

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26-09-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
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26-09-2017, 12:42 PM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
I agree with the point that the NFL is a business and the players are coming to work. As such, those players should follow the rules of their employment. However, in the first place, I have never understood what patriotism or the national anthem has to do with sporting events. I understand patriotism when it comes international sporting events, but the average home-country-only game, no. We don't sing the national anthem before every game show episode. What's the difference? Frankly, it's annoying when I go to my kid's school sporting event on a weeknight when time is tight and homework still yet to be completed and we have to waste time waiting on the national anthem because this is what is modeled by professional sports.

However, given that the national anthem is part of the work environment for these athletes, they should be bound by the related rules. But it's also the right of the employers to change rules (within legally permissable avenues) or allow them to be broken if they deem that it makes sense under certain circumstances. Overall, the NFL owners and leaders seem to be supporting the players who want to kneel and Trump's interference seems to have brought in a few more in support as well.

The POTUS should have nothing to do with any of this. Trump shouldn't be interfering with private business. When he did so and he demanded blind patriotism, he demonstrated that a) he doesn't understand patriotism, b) he doesn't understand patriotic protest in particular, c) he dosen't care about the cause that is being protested, and d) it quite likely showed he actually opposes protesting that specific cause - which is the mistreatment and killing of blacks by too many police officers. It's appalling that he finds this issue worthy of his time and attention when he's completely ignoring other more important ones - like the devastation in Puerto Rico after 2 hurricanes. Dodgy

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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26-09-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
(26-09-2017 12:42 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I agree with the point that the NFL is a business and the players are coming to work. As such, those players should follow the rules of their employment. However, in the first place, I have never understood what patriotism or the national anthem has to do with sporting events. I understand patriotism when it comes international sporting events, but the average home-country-only game, no. We don't sing the national anthem before every game show episode. What's the difference? Frankly, it's annoying when I go to my kid's school sporting event on a weeknight when time is tight and homework still yet to be completed and we have to waste time waiting on the national anthem because this is what is modeled by professional sports.

However, given that the national anthem is part of the work environment for these athletes, they should be bound by the related rules. But it's also the right of the employers to change rules (within legally permissable avenues) or allow them to be broken if they deem that it makes sense under certain circumstances. Overall, the NFL owners and leaders seem to be supporting the players who want to kneel and Trump's interference seems to have brought in a few more in support as well.

The POTUS should have nothing to do with any of this. Trump shouldn't be interfering with private business. When he did so and he demanded blind patriotism, he demonstrated that a) he doesn't understand patriotism, b) he doesn't understand patriotic protest in particular, c) he dosen't care about the cause that is being protested, and d) it quite likely showed he actually opposes protesting that specific cause - which is the mistreatment and killing of blacks by too many police officers. It's appalling that he finds this issue worthy of his time and attention when he's completely ignoring other more important ones - like the devastation in Puerto Rico after 2 hurricanes. Dodgy

I'd be all for skipping it and not having at local sports games. It is too divisive because each individual American has their own ideas of what patriotism means. It is a voluntary ritual in any case.

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26-09-2017, 05:56 PM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2017 06:18 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
Why are we playing the national anthem of a country in an intra-national league? I can get why we would do it in a league that has teams from a plurality of country like in the World Cup, but during American Football matches that seems really stupid. Even in the major baseball, basketball and hockey leagues its pretty stupid. Teams are polynationals, aren't representative of a nation or a State and they all come from the same 2 countries (90% of the teams being from the US). Why the fuck would we need to play the national anthem?

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26-09-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
lol

Did anybody else hear Ray Lewis in Inside the NFL that he wasn't taking "a knee" as he stated he never would but rather took both knees to pray to God?

I like that murdering phony as personality though. That's entertainment!
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26-09-2017, 07:54 PM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
I like the national anthem at sporting events and I would prefer everyone stand at attention. For me it's not blind thoughtless loyalty it's allegiance to an idea, or maybe a dream. The reality may or may not be hitting even close to the lofty aspirations of the dream, that's for each person to decide, but I'm revering the goals of the dream- equality of opportunity, rule of law, individual freedoms. Or I'm at least revering the movement towards those goals, or the notion that we should be moving towards, and not away, from those goals.

I guess part of the problem is there is no generally agreed upon concept of why Americans stand for the anthem. It is just generally stated as "respect" for the flag. That's not good enough. Is it respect for the military? Belief that the nation's doing a great job, especially its current leaders? I always thought it vaguely meant respect for the ideals of good liberal participatory government, but apparently it's just a current events survey: "Stand if you think the US is doing great! Kneel if hate Trump or if you're unhappy with the current state of race relations! Stand and lock hands if something, Kneel and lock hands if something else! Put a towel on your head and look anguished if something else!"

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26-09-2017, 07:55 PM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
(26-09-2017 07:46 PM)ImFred Wrote:  lol

Did anybody else hear Ray Lewis in Inside the NFL that he wasn't taking "a knee" as he stated he never would but rather took both knees to pray to God?

I like that murdering phony as personality though. That's entertainment!

Maybe finding God is something that happens when you send others to meet him...

Seriously though, was there any hard evidence that he did the shanking?

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26-09-2017, 08:07 PM
RE: Forced ritual are the demands of despots. NFL
I have no idea and don't even care.
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