Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
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28-10-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 06:20 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 06:24 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Well i disagree with freedom as the primary right

Why?
Freedom and order can at times be mutually exclusive. I think some order is more important than absolute freedom.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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28-10-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 10:47 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 06:20 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Why?
Freedom and order can at times be mutually exclusive. I think some order is more important than absolute freedom.

I could have elaborated better on this but it wasn't the point of the post so I didn't feel the need. Of course some order is more important than absolute freedom, absolute freedom for everyone would be terrifying to be quite honest. But wherever possible, freedom to do what you want with your body and property should be the priority, and the prime motivator behind any legislative decision. A good example is the smoking ban, now I don't smoke, I find it a bit gross, and smelly. But legislating private businesses into banning the practice is absolutely absurd, if a business wants to ban smoking, it is it's right to do so, the opposite is also true. Some businesses will cater to one segment of the community, others to the other segment. As public education increases, and less people smoke, the number of businesses who allow it will shrink for no other reason than profit and public pressure. There is no need to legislate this, and I would argue, not only is there no need, that it's contrary to the spirit of the constitution. Does the constitution specifically say you have the right to smoke? No, of course not. But it doesn't explicitly give you the right to do a lot of things, eat meat? Hunt? Advertise unhealthy things to kids? Public swearing? We could go on and on here obviously. The governments powers should stop at public land, telling me or anyone else what I can or can't do on my own property is insulting, demeaning, patronizing bullshit.

Further, small government doesn't mean no government, there are things the government should be doing that don't trample liberties. Providing assistance for the disabled(except the ADA which is also shit), SSI, education(lower and higher), welfare and food stamps, and many other things that help the less fortunate, and yes, even healthcare. All of which are perfectly feasible and affordable if only we could get rid of all the useless, wasteful, do nothing, nanny state garbage.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -David Hume
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28-10-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
I won't elaborate much, since this isn't a debate and I'm not interested in debating..but my stance is that limiting/prohibiting certain substances and activities is a good thing. I also think imposing rules and regulations on business conduct is a good thing (just to clarify that I'm not just speaking of freedom in the "I can do whatever I want" type of way.)

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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28-10-2015, 05:03 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 03:29 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I won't elaborate much, since this isn't a debate and I'm not interested in debating..but my stance is that limiting/prohibiting certain substances and activities is a good thing. I also think imposing rules and regulations on business conduct is a good thing (just to clarify that I'm not just speaking of freedom in the "I can do whatever I want" type of way.)

You are more than entitled to such a stance, that doesn't make it constitutional, or even ethical. I would just add that the belief that limiting and/or prohibiting certain substances is constructive even when it flies in the face of every known shred of evidence is no different than a religious one.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -David Hume
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28-10-2015, 05:12 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 05:03 PM)RinChi Wrote:  You are more than entitled to such a stance, that doesn't make it constitutional, or even ethical. [additional insulting speech...]
Wow. No need to be a dick. Just stating my opinion, not imposing it on you.

Nice, "you are entitled to your opinion, but you are an idiot and obviously not as smart as me." response. Dick.

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28-10-2015, 05:36 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 05:12 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 05:03 PM)RinChi Wrote:  You are more than entitled to such a stance, that doesn't make it constitutional, or even ethical. [additional insulting speech...]
Wow. No need to be a dick. Just stating my opinion, not imposing it on you.

Nice, "you are entitled to your opinion, but you are an idiot and obviously not as smart as me." response. Dick.

My apologies if I came across like a dick, it was certainly not my intention. I was just trying to point out that opinions should be grounded in something, preferably in some kind of evidence. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want, but if you want to proclaim something to me, you better have something to back it up besides unfounded conviction. I never made any statement about your intelligence, not everyone thinks about or has the time to research the evidence for every single thing they assert, including myself. The thing is, when I am presented with evidence counter to my beliefs, I don't take it as a personal insult, I make a choice to either find opposing evidence and make my argument, or accept said evidence and change my belief based on it. I could provide literally books worth of evidence that the "drug war" or indeed drug laws in general don't work. You want to assert otherwise, fine, show me the contrary evidence. If you cant to that, then you are asserting an unfounded belief. This is not meant as an insult, it is a statement of fact.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -David Hume
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28-10-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
I'm voting Gwynnies.

[Image: gwynnies.jpg]

#sigh
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28-10-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
I'm not voting again ever until we have a candidate who wants socialized medicine. The libertarians, the democrats, the republicans, etc. can all fuck themselves. They are all owned by somebody, usually big business, they are all warmongers, and they can all eat shit and die.
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28-10-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 05:57 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  I'm not voting again ever until we have a candidate who wants socialized medicine.

Bernie Sanders unabashedly supports it.

#sigh
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28-10-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Forced to vote Democrat: Christianity's Stranglehold on the Right
(28-10-2015 06:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 05:57 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  I'm not voting again ever until we have a candidate who wants socialized medicine.

Bernie Sanders unabashedly supports it.

Yeah, Bernie has pretty much ran on universal healthcare and higher education. He'll probably get my vote in the end because of that. My IStandwith score supports this as well.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -David Hume
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