Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
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09-02-2016, 01:16 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
(08-02-2016 11:01 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 10:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  Probably not to those who actually read the thread. Drinking Beverage

To be clear my reference is to the style of posting (cursing/name calling/swearing vs calm/polite/civil) not the subject matter. Though I suspect you also think more people agree with you than actually do.

Consider

... Starkers hast thou read ce thread ici? Matt's being obtuse. Chas finally lost patience.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-02-2016, 01:30 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2016 09:09 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
(08-02-2016 11:01 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 10:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  Probably not to those who actually read the thread. Drinking Beverage

To be clear my reference is to the style of posting (cursing/name calling/swearing vs calm/polite/civil) not the subject matter. Though I suspect you also think more people agree with you than actually do.

Consider

I pretty much bowed out of this thread when points made against Matt were either ignored or laughed off without solid rebuttal -- I consider both sorts of "responses" to be rude, myself.
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09-02-2016, 02:28 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
Terse > Obtuse?


Sometimes it's good to poke the bully.

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09-02-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
There's probably some guy named Christian Baker getting hassled over this thread. Big Grin

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09-02-2016, 04:43 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
(08-02-2016 08:11 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 06:23 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Actually the significant problem with polygamy is that it isn't a direct comparable in situations to legal scenarios... that's why it's not a good analogy to homosexual marriage and most understand it outside the Santorum crowd. What you mean by you can refuse service isn't sensible accurate or on point at all.. but if you're talking about why they're now treated legally different, that's a bigger story.

The legal scenarios of marriage, rights, divorce, wills, etc. are complex and add more parties to the fold in polygamous marriages.Then the bigger issue is when children are involved too, how do you handle the custody & protection rights in these cases.. that gets more complicated where homosexuality is still just 2 consenting adults. There's also some other issued comparable but all these concepts are still poor analogies because they're far from equal situations. Plus there is a strong beyond "yucky" reason for these dichotomies.

Nope, polygamy is illegal because it's yucky (or perceived by most to be yucky, I actually don't give 2 shits about it). If you don't believe that, you're only fooling yourself.

You seriously think it's illegal because it's too much of a hassle in courts?

Thanks, though no, I never said or indicated "it's illegal" because this reason. It's about why it's not a direct comparable nor on equal footing to gay marriage.

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09-02-2016, 07:13 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
Sorry all, if I came across as being obtuse, it wasn't my intention, and I apologize.

In the end I feel good about this discussion, and I can accept that if certain businesses want to exclude certain groups of people, then we should force them to operate as a club, rather than a business that is open to the public. Makes sense to me, and it gives people back the freedom they desire, should they have the desire to exclude certain groups. Seems fair to me.
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09-02-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
(09-02-2016 07:13 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Sorry all, if I came across as being obtuse, it wasn't my intention, and I apologize.

In the end I feel good about this discussion, and I can accept that if certain businesses want to exclude certain groups of people, then we should force them to operate as a club, rather than a business that is open to the public. Makes sense to me, and it gives people back the freedom they desire, should they have the desire to exclude certain groups. Seems fair to me.

At the risk of being accused of further bullying, I don't think you have yet got the right of it.

Forming a club could be a legal 'out' for the bigot, but that is not actually the freedom that the bigot wants.
It has been the bigots' position that they want to operate businesses in any discriminatory manner they choose.

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09-02-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
In any case I don't see how you can operate the "No Gays Allowed Cake Club" in such a way as to give yourself a profit and sell cakes. I mean, no one buys wedding cakes monthly - other than maybe Tiger Woods. Also AFAIK a club is a non-profit organisation run for the benefit of its members. Ergo, you have a chairman, secretary, treasurer etc and members have an AGM and vote on stuff to do with club business.

Bear in mind that club is more than just a name. A night-club for example is a for-profit business and must follow non-discrimination laws.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-02-2016, 09:15 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
I thought clubs could legally discriminate, even night clubs.

"Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Alexander Hunter wrote this week that Roy Den Hollander was not the victim of age and gender discrimination in 2010 when a bouncer at Amnesia nightclub told the 66-year-old to pay up, while letting a young lady in for free at the same time" http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/judg...-1.1415304
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09-02-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Forcing christian bakers to bake gay cakes is wrong
(09-02-2016 08:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  In any case I don't see how you can operate the "No Gays Allowed Cake Club" in such a way as to give yourself a profit and sell cakes. I mean, no one buys wedding cakes monthly - other than maybe Tiger Woods. Also AFAIK a club is a non-profit organisation run for the benefit of its members. Ergo, you have a chairman, secretary, treasurer etc and members have an AGM and vote on stuff to do with club business.

What about a lifetime membership equal to the price of a cake, and when you join, your first cake is free?

Just fill out your application....
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