Formaldehyde in Vaccines
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14-03-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: Formaldehyde in Vaccines
(14-03-2014 05:48 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 08:13 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Not really a good analogy.

HOWEVER - what I will agree with. that you did not mention is that by having the flu - even if one doesnt mind the inconvenience they may put OTHER vulnerable people at risk. In fact if a teacher for example has flu and then passes it onto a classroom of children - how many of those children may get seriously harmed ?
A Flu Vaccine is ZERO risk to others.

This is a powerful pro-vaccination argument I'm surprised you didn't mention.

I was getting to that one eventually--as a teacher I get my flu shot for that exact reason. I think the argument of "I'm healthy, so *I* don't need it" is a selfish argument. There are people that are immunocompromised that can't receive vaccines, thus they rely on others to receive the vaccine as a form of protection.
And I knew you were going to call me out on that analogy lol.

Getting the flu vaccine, in essence, *is* making your immune system get a work out in. The immune response is occurring, without the risk of developing the flu. If we want to worry about the miniscule amounts of Ethyl mercury in vaccines then we have to take a look at every other harmful chemical we come into contact with on a DAILY basis. Triclosan, BPA, PBDEs, etc, etc.

Partly agree. However Just because we are exposed to other harmful chemicals its not an excuse to add to the list. I would also add that some chemicals are far more risky than others even at extremely low amounts. Some evidence suggests Eth-Hg is harmful at small amounts and we should be pro-active in removing it from the environment (including Methyl-Hg and any elemental Hg).

As for the selfishness of spreading flu etc - I partially agree and this depends on the degree of contact one has with others. Eg if there is an immunodeficiency/compromised person in the family eg on intensive chemotherapy then it is advisable for everyone coming into contact with that person to be vaccinated. However flu is not like smallpox - it will never be made extinct and people are highly likely to come into contact with it regardless if you are vaccinated. (vaccination does not even guarantee immunity - therefore even if everyone is vaccinated it will never become extinct)

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume

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14-03-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Formaldehyde in Vaccines
Bottom line - why I got back into the thiomersal controversy was due to corruption in the "danish study" from the journal 'pediatrics'.

specifically the activities and misrepresentations by Poul Thorsen, MD, PhD.

This isnt "any old study" but one of the most important pivotal studies which influenced the court cases for damages claimed against thiomersal toxicity and was supposed to "lay to rest" the debate.

Turns out there was falsification of data, embezzlement, conflict of interest with CDC - a whole spectrum of publication problems.

I would be hypocritical if I spend my time ridiculing and attacking Andrew Wakefield for his scandalous and terrible paper in the lancet claiming thiomersal causes bowel inflammation diseases and autism without acknowledging some seriously flawed science found in the above linked article in paediatrics.

However I do agree that anti-vaccine people have been linked to some quite staggering pseudoscience. One of the worst books i have EVER read was:
What Doctors Don't Tell You: The Truth About the Dangers of Modern Medicine by Lynne McTaggart

Please if you buy the book for exploring pseudoscience and VERY BAD JOURNALISM please get it second hand (I did) so you dont give this lady a penny !!!
Like pseudo-creationism ken Ham style.
Every chapter - especially the vaccines chapter are just so extremely badly researched it is no surprise why science based medicine is often hostile to the alternative medicine field.
I was quite open minded to some alternative medicine claims (and I work in the medical field) but this book showed me the extreme danger and hazards of creating panic and offering pseudoscience.
I utterly despise this author - basking in revenue from a book of junk.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume

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