Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
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02-10-2013, 08:44 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 08:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  The militaries of every country have plans for multiple scenarios.

Do you have any evidence for this conspiracy theory, other than 'because I said so'?

I suspect you're wrong. Imagine if a peace loving, neutral nation, like Switzerland, had war plans drawn up to invade other countries. If this was leaked it would cause a lot more fury for the Swiss than Snowden did for Americans. All it would take is one government employee with even a little bit of a conscious to blow the whistle and expose the country's hypocrisy. Given that Switzerland, unlike the US, doesn't censor the press, doesn't send it's people gag orders, doesn't have secret courts, etc., etc., it'd just be impossible for them to keep the wraps on it and prevent all whistleblowers. I understand they have all sorts of war plans drawn up to defend against an attack, but that's public knowledge and they don't hide it. But war plans to invade and take over other countries, that's really a US and Russian thing imo.
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02-10-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 08:44 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 08:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  The militaries of every country have plans for multiple scenarios.

Do you have any evidence for this conspiracy theory, other than 'because I said so'?

I suspect you're wrong. Imagine if a peace loving, neutral nation, like Switzerland, had war plans drawn up to invade other countries. If this was leaked it would cause a lot more fury for the Swiss than Snowden did for Americans. All it would take is one government employee with even a little bit of a conscious to blow the whistle and expose the country's hypocrisy. Given that Switzerland, unlike the US, doesn't censor the press, doesn't send it's people gag orders, doesn't have secret courts, etc., etc., it'd just be impossible for them to keep the wraps on it and prevent all whistleblowers. I understand they have all sorts of war plans drawn up to defend against an attack, but that's public knowledge and they don't hide it. But war plans to invade and take over other countries, that's really a US and Russian thing imo.

I didn't say invasion, did I? I said contingencies.

Do you really think that Syria and Egypt don't have invasion plans for Israel?
North Korea for South Korea? China for Siberia? And so on?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-10-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
Quote:I'm sure we have plans at the ready to invade China.

I responded to that claim (which someone else wrote) with:

Quote:Do you think this is normal? Does Canada [have] plans to invade China?

And you quoted my question, which was if other countries have plans to invade each other, with "The militaries of every country have plans for multiple scenarios". Sorry if I misread your answer, it sounded like you were arguing that everybody has plans to invade everybody else.

Quote:Do you really think that Syria and Egypt don't have invasion plans for Israel?
North Korea for South Korea? China for Siberia? And so on?

Well, I've traveled throughout the Middle East, and was in Egypt just a few months ago, and 'no', I don't think they have invasion plans for Israel. It's simply not in their culture. Their concern is about defending themselves FROM Israel. Remember, Israel's borders have kept spreading as Israel has attacked its neighbors to take over their land. Israel has attacked Syria just this past year. Having explored their culture, I genuinely believe that all they want is to be left alone and that their aggression is purely in retaliation for the horrific atrocities committed against them. And the 9/11 commission and the CIA have said the same thing, btw, so this isn't even controversial.

Out of 50 some countries I've spent time in, the only people who talk about invading other countries and showing the world who has the biggest dick are Americans.

North Korea, I'll concede, though is bat-shit crazy and, heck, they even put up on Youtube some war plans to bomb Austin, TX. But I suspect they're just playing the crazy card in order to remain relevant and negotiate for aid.
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02-10-2013, 09:43 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2013 09:47 PM by frankksj.)
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
We can also make it semi-scientific. Here's examples of Americans:

Borat Rodeo Scene

Here, this guy says to an unsuspecting audience at a sporting event that he hopes the US will kill every man, woman and child in Iraq. The crowd, unaware they're being filmed, jump to their feet and applaud. Can you show me any video or link to anything showing something remotely similar in another country? Sure, Hitler was evil. But it took him years of carefully brainwashing the German people, and keeping the actual slaughter hidden from the public eye. I'm sure he only wished it would be so easy like in the US, he'd only need to stand up in the middle of the Berlin stadium and say "Let's kill all the Jews!", and the Germans would leap to their feet and support it.

Madeleine Albright defends killing half a million kids

There the secretary of state calmly defends killing half a million kids as 'worth it', even though they posed no threat to us, and she can't come up with anything positive that came out of it.

This stuff goes on and on so that we don't even notice it anymore in the US. Bowling for Columbine has lots of similar clips. But I challenge you to find one clip, one video from any other country in the world, besides Israel, where you see the people show such total disregard for the lives of foreigners and a blood-lust to attack and kill people who pose you no threat.

I see it constantly in the US. But even though I spend most of my time outside the US, I've never seen it anywhere else.
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02-10-2013, 10:10 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 09:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
Quote:Do you really think that Syria and Egypt don't have invasion plans for Israel?
North Korea for South Korea? China for Siberia? And so on?

Well, I've traveled throughout the Middle East, and was in Egypt just a few months ago, and 'no', I don't think they have invasion plans for Israel. It's simply not in their culture. Their concern is about defending themselves FROM Israel. Remember, Israel's borders have kept spreading as Israel has attacked its neighbors to take over their land. Israel has attacked Syria just this past year. Having explored their culture, I genuinely believe that all they want is to be left alone and that their aggression is purely in retaliation for the horrific atrocities committed against them. And the 9/11 commission and the CIA have said the same thing, btw, so this isn't even controversial.

Out of 50 some countries I've spent time in, the only people who talk about invading other countries and showing the world who has the biggest dick are Americans.

North Korea, I'll concede, though is bat-shit crazy and, heck, they even put up on Youtube some war plans to bomb Austin, TX. But I suspect they're just playing the crazy card in order to remain relevant and negotiate for aid.

You do recall that Egypt and Syria have attacked Israel multiple times already.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-10-2013, 10:16 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 10:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 09:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Well, I've traveled throughout the Middle East, and was in Egypt just a few months ago, and 'no', I don't think they have invasion plans for Israel. It's simply not in their culture. Their concern is about defending themselves FROM Israel. Remember, Israel's borders have kept spreading as Israel has attacked its neighbors to take over their land. Israel has attacked Syria just this past year. Having explored their culture, I genuinely believe that all they want is to be left alone and that their aggression is purely in retaliation for the horrific atrocities committed against them. And the 9/11 commission and the CIA have said the same thing, btw, so this isn't even controversial.

Out of 50 some countries I've spent time in, the only people who talk about invading other countries and showing the world who has the biggest dick are Americans.

North Korea, I'll concede, though is bat-shit crazy and, heck, they even put up on Youtube some war plans to bomb Austin, TX. But I suspect they're just playing the crazy card in order to remain relevant and negotiate for aid.

You do recall that Egypt and Syria have attacked Israel multiple times already.

And they attacked Israel because????? Was Israel attacking them first? Was Israel trying to take the Sinai peninsula from Egypt? Was Israel trying to take the Golan Heights from Syria? FUCK YES

I love how you left those details out, either you left them out because you are stupid or you left them out on purpose because your a lying douchebag. Which is it?
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02-10-2013, 10:39 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 10:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 10:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  You do recall that Egypt and Syria have attacked Israel multiple times already.

And they attacked Israel because????? Was Israel attacking them first? Was Israel trying to take the Sinai peninsula from Egypt? Was Israel trying to take the Golan Heights from Syria? FUCK YES

I love how you left those details out, either you left them out because you are stupid or you left them out on purpose because your a lying douchebag. Which is it?

Israel took the Golan Heights, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Sinai in the Six Day War in 1967.

The UAR had 100,000 troops massed at the border, Syria had 75,000, and Jordan had 55,000 and 300 tanks along the border.

Israel sent air strikes against UAR air fields and the fun began.

I bet you think Israel was the aggressor, right?

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02-10-2013, 10:45 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 10:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 10:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  And they attacked Israel because????? Was Israel attacking them first? Was Israel trying to take the Sinai peninsula from Egypt? Was Israel trying to take the Golan Heights from Syria? FUCK YES

I love how you left those details out, either you left them out because you are stupid or you left them out on purpose because your a lying douchebag. Which is it?

Israel took the Golan Heights, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Sinai in the Six Day War in 1967.

The UAR had 100,000 troops massed at the border, Syria had 75,000, and Jordan had 55,000 and 300 tanks along the border.

Israel sent air strikes against UAR air fields and the fun began.

I bet you think Israel was the aggressor, right?

A country attacking another country without being attacked first is the aggressor according to war crimes tribunals and according to war crimes trials against Hitlers men at Nuremberg. Are you going to now claim that the Nuremberg trials got it wrong?

Here goes chas defending the bush doctrine of first strike.....

take it away chas
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02-10-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 10:45 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 10:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  Israel took the Golan Heights, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Sinai in the Six Day War in 1967.

The UAR had 100,000 troops massed at the border, Syria had 75,000, and Jordan had 55,000 and 300 tanks along the border.

Israel sent air strikes against UAR air fields and the fun began.

I bet you think Israel was the aggressor, right?

A country attacking another country without being attacked first is the aggressor according to war crimes tribunals and according to war crimes trials against Hitlers men at Nuremberg. Are you going to now claim that the Nuremberg trials got it wrong?

Here goes chas defending the bush doctrine of first strike.....

take it away chas

Apples and oranges.

You missed the part about the UAE, Syria, and Jordan readying an invasion.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2013, 05:55 AM
RE: Former US General Wesley Clark says wars were planned in advance.
(02-10-2013 10:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 10:45 PM)I and I Wrote:  A country attacking another country without being attacked first is the aggressor according to war crimes tribunals and according to war crimes trials against Hitlers men at Nuremberg. Are you going to now claim that the Nuremberg trials got it wrong?

Here goes chas defending the bush doctrine of first strike.....

take it away chas

Apples and oranges.

You missed the part about the UAE, Syria, and Jordan readying an invasion.

You missed the part about attacking a nation preemptively being a war crime. When in history has any nation attacked Israel preemptively? Israel has attacked nations preemptively on multiple occasions.
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