Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
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04-02-2015, 06:02 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
I meant to add to my previous post.... What would anti vax people do if Ebola spread to the US and there was a vaccine for this. Would they not vaccinate, eat more organic food, blame Africans for it's spread and run for the hills?

My mother lived at a time when vaccines didn't really exist. When she was a 7 years old little girl in Canada and living in a small town, she left for two weeks for a Christmas vacation and when she got back to school 6 or 7 of her classmates had died of dyptheria. This was in a class of about 20 kids. If this were to happen today parents, including those idiot anti-vax parents, would beat doors down to get their children vaccinated.


I'm also reminded of one of the most beautiful actresses from the 1940's named Gene Tierney. While pregnant with her daughter she contracted German measels, probably from a fan who was infected. Gene Tierney's daughter was born prematurely with severe damage caused from the rubella and the actresses career was never the same.

The fan who infected her later approached her for an autograph and told her she was such a big fan that she had faught against the measle symptoms to see her at the Hollywood Canteen years before when Gene was pregnant. This event was written into an Agatha Christie story.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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04-02-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
My son came down with a mild case of measles after his first or second MMR - it's been years I don't remember. When it came time for the booster I asked the pediatrician what he would do if were one of his kids...he said he would vaccinate so I did.

Everything was fine. Then son got whooping cough a couple years later but was pretty mild and probably would have been worse had he not been vaccinated.

What ticks me off is that there are babies who are too young to be vaccinated and people with compromised immune systems who are contracting measles thanks to people you heard one thing bad about vaccines and therefore don't immunize their kids.

From people I know with kids on the autism spectrum, it is first noticed at vaccination age. I suppose it's natural to look for a cause and the routine shot schedule is easy to point to.

There was a girl I went to high school with who had polio - fucking polio! Because her parents didn't have her immunized against it. Seems a no-brainer to me if you can prevent or lessen a disease.

Hell, I got the flu two weeks after I got my flu shot but I will get another one in the fall cause when it works it's a wonderful thing - the flu fucking sucks.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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04-02-2015, 07:31 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
KC pointed this one out over on FB.

I say this as a fucking IMMUNOLOGIST, you are single handedly responsible for the skyrocketing resurgence of deaths caused by TB, measles and the worrying prospect of smallpox returning.

#sigh
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06-02-2015, 07:51 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
This has been a very helpful thread for me with some great resources. I have another question: for those of you who are parents, do you feel nervous at all when your kid gets vaccines being nervous of the scary (but rare) side effects? Obviously the disease is much more likely and very scary, and any procedure comes with risks. Are the really bad side effects extremely rare? Is there a website listing statistics of adverse side effects? Just curious.
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06-02-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(06-02-2015 07:51 AM)Learner Wrote:  This has been a very helpful thread for me with some great resources. I have another question: for those of you who are parents, do you feel nervous at all when your kid gets vaccines being nervous of the scary (but rare) side effects? Obviously the disease is much more likely and very scary, and any procedure comes with risks. Are the really bad side effects extremely rare? Is there a website listing statistics of adverse side effects? Just curious.

The CDC posts some statistics.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-02-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(04-02-2015 09:00 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That is a big point, parents either don't look for developmental delays, don't know what to look for, or are in denial about the delays that are there.

So someone takes their kid to get their shots, in the weeks and months that follow they begin to notice that the child is not as far along as he/she should be, they assume the correlation with the timing of the shots has something to do with it.

The simple fact is that there is nothing in the shots that could cause autism. Autism is also a spectrum of disorders that most likely has a very strong genetic influence (it tends to be hereditary for sure, implying genetics). Nothing genetic is going to be influenced by the introduction of a shot that activates the immune system.


Basically, the anti-vaxxer movement comes down to one of a couple of issues:

1) Conservatives who don't want the government involved in their lives (another point for another day on this rubbish)

2) Libertarians who want the choice (except this choice doesn't only effect the people not vaccinating. Not vaccinating is akin to driving with their headlights off at night and them saying "but if you have your headlights on then you should be okay" while failing to realize that we share the same space and no matter how cautious I am, they can still fuck me and my children up by being ignorant and arrogant about their driving skills.)

3) Religion, where people believe that their god protects them.

4) The super-hippy movement where people seek out "natural" methods for curing disease. These people really frustrate me. Firstly, we are a part of nature, so what we do isn't unnatural by default, we have learned to take advantage of nature to our advantage. And secondly, vaccinations are activating our immune systems, our natural innate immune systems.

5) The conspiracy theorists who think big pharma is just out to make money off of them. Any company is out to make money, choosing some sort of self-righteous idea that you're not going to give pharmaceutical companies your money is pretty stupid. These people either acknowledge that the diseases are real, and they don't want to shell out the dough, or they think big pharma is making fake vaccines. Either way, they are morons. We have seen the positive effects of vaccinations, for instance, we don't have to vaccinate against smallpox because vaccines all but eliminated it. We could eliminate polio and measles and mumps and rubella and the whooping cough, if people would just get their goddamn vaccines.

Also, to add on to the conspiracy theorist beliefs (I used to be one, and I have family members who currently are). They also believe vaccines are used for depopulation, sterilization, and that "they" are purposely trying to increase the autism rates to "make us easier to control".
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06-02-2015, 09:49 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(06-02-2015 07:51 AM)Learner Wrote:  This has been a very helpful thread for me with some great resources. I have another question: for those of you who are parents, do you feel nervous at all when your kid gets vaccines being nervous of the scary (but rare) side effects? Obviously the disease is much more likely and very scary, and any procedure comes with risks. Are the really bad side effects extremely rare? Is there a website listing statistics of adverse side effects? Just curious.

I am not a parent, but I imagine that when I am I will be a bit nervous. I would be a little nervous if I went to go get vaccinated. Logical or not, it's true. I used to be an anti-vaxxer, so that fear kind of lingers in my brain even though I know that it's bullshit.
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06-02-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(06-02-2015 09:49 AM)Punk Pumpkin Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 07:51 AM)Learner Wrote:  This has been a very helpful thread for me with some great resources. I have another question: for those of you who are parents, do you feel nervous at all when your kid gets vaccines being nervous of the scary (but rare) side effects? Obviously the disease is much more likely and very scary, and any procedure comes with risks. Are the really bad side effects extremely rare? Is there a website listing statistics of adverse side effects? Just curious.

I am not a parent, but I imagine that when I am I will be a bit nervous. I would be a little nervous if I went to go get vaccinated. Logical or not, it's true. I used to be an anti-vaxxer, so that fear kind of lingers in my brain even though I know that it's bullshit.

Get the facts, understand the science, and your fear will diminish.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-02-2015, 11:22 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
All three of my kids had all their vaccinations. And my grandchildren get theirs.

Just went this morning and had two of my three dogs vaccinated. The other will get done in April.

Preventable illnesses should be prevented. Potential side effects are generally much less severe, and certainly less deadly, than the illnesses they help prevent.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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06-02-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(06-02-2015 09:49 AM)Punk Pumpkin Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 07:51 AM)Learner Wrote:  This has been a very helpful thread for me with some great resources. I have another question: for those of you who are parents, do you feel nervous at all when your kid gets vaccines being nervous of the scary (but rare) side effects? Obviously the disease is much more likely and very scary, and any procedure comes with risks. Are the really bad side effects extremely rare? Is there a website listing statistics of adverse side effects? Just curious.

I am not a parent, but I imagine that when I am I will be a bit nervous. I would be a little nervous if I went to go get vaccinated. Logical or not, it's true. I used to be an anti-vaxxer, so that fear kind of lingers in my brain even though I know that it's bullshit.

So, they've combined their conspiracy over chemtrails into vaccines?

Who knew stupid ideas were so infectious? They are so infectious they are actually spreading to other conspiracies. That is like having a virus jump from plants to animals.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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