Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
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08-02-2015, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 02:31 PM by Chas.)
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(08-02-2015 02:26 PM)gofish! Wrote:  
(04-02-2015 09:00 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That is a big point, parents either don't look for developmental delays, don't know what to look for, or are in denial about the delays that are there.

So someone takes their kid to get their shots, in the weeks and months that follow they begin to notice that the child is not as far along as he/she should be, they assume the correlation with the timing of the shots has something to do with it.
Well, that sounds like you're talking about my wife and I so let me say how it went down for us.

Exactly like that. We actually did have close correlation between our son's MMR and onset of Apraxia (our first clue in what was a long trail to discovery of his Asperger's syndrome). That fact that we were living in Manhattan and had one of the best pediatricians on the Upper East Side had no effect on the fear we both felt. This all happened around the time Wakefield was prominent, but not fully exposed.

Thankfully, it was detailed research and the weight of available evidence that convinced us and I'm thankful we had the ability to overcome our fear and our natural "fight" reflex, which had us metaphorically hunting for the guilty party so we could exact revenge.

The love one feels for one's child is a powerful force. I recall being in a hospital when our baby was vomiting and badly dehydrated and the nurse was having problems finding a vein. I had to remove myself from A&E as I was in real danger of punching that nurse's lights out (even though there is no way he ever would have deserved it).

(04-02-2015 09:00 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The simple fact is that there is nothing in the shots that could cause autism. Autism is also a spectrum of disorders that most likely has a very strong genetic influence (it tends to be hereditary for sure, implying genetics). Nothing genetic is going to be influenced by the introduction of a shot that activates the immune system.
Agreed. Indeed, to this day, I suspect I'm undiagnosed, as discssed on other threads. Smile

(04-02-2015 09:00 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Basically, the anti-vaxxer movement comes down to one of a couple of issues:

1) Conservatives who don't want the government involved in their lives (another point for another day on this rubbish)

2) Libertarians who want the choice (except this choice doesn't only effect the people not vaccinating. Not vaccinating is akin to driving with their headlights off at night and them saying "but if you have your headlights on then you should be okay" while failing to realize that we share the same space and no matter how cautious I am, they can still fuck me and my children up by being ignorant and arrogant about their driving skills.)

3) Religion, where people believe that their god protects them.

4) The super-hippy movement where people seek out "natural" methods for curing disease. These people really frustrate me. Firstly, we are a part of nature, so what we do isn't unnatural by default, we have learned to take advantage of nature to our advantage. And secondly, vaccinations are activating our immune systems, our natural innate immune systems.

5) The conspiracy theorists who think big pharma is just out to make money off of them. Any company is out to make money, choosing some sort of self-righteous idea that you're not going to give pharmaceutical companies your money is pretty stupid. These people either acknowledge that the diseases are real, and they don't want to shell out the dough, or they think big pharma is making fake vaccines. Either way, they are morons. We have seen the positive effects of vaccinations, for instance, we don't have to vaccinate against smallpox because vaccines all but eliminated it. We could eliminate polio and measles and mumps and rubella and the whooping cough, if people would just get their goddamn vaccines.

They are all as one for me - various assorted nutjobs who want to peddle their world-view on the back of real people's fear, agony and suffering.

They're all cunts.

The problem was "[./quote]' about half way down.

Context:
going to be influenced by the introduction of a shot that activates the immune system.
[./quote]
Agreed. Indeed, to this day, I suspect I'm undiagnosed, as discssed on other threads. Smile


When this happens, you need to look at the tags - don't just keep posting it.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2015, 01:26 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
Here's another anti-vaxxer win.

Rex Murphy: Anti-Vaxxers Have 'The Intellectual Power Of A Dead Tree Stump' - Huffington Post




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09-02-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
Having the brakes removed from your car is a personal decision

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18-02-2015, 11:52 AM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
I was also anti-vax until just recently. I realized my atheism about 4 months ago, which caused me to reevaluate my other beliefs. I also personally know someone who believes vaccines damaged her son. She went through the transition from fundamental christianity to atheism about the same time as I did, and we sort of went through it together, walking each other through the rough patches. She wants to vaccinate bc the science behind them is strong. But her son regressed into non-communicative, autistic like symptoms within hours of his last vaccine (granted, it was actually multiple vaccines, where in he received approximately 7 vaccines at one Dr. visit, something that is not on the recommended schedule and something I still think is unnecessary and potentially dangerous). After much thought and reading, and talking with my husband and others, I decided we needed to vaccinate our boys. Our oldest had been partially vaccinated, so he only needs about 7 more to be caught up. Our youngest, however, had never had one at all, and I was so scared that my pristine "pure" child would regress or have some reaction. We took them in for their first MMR. The most dreaded of all vaccines. You know what happened? Nothing. One of the them had a little low grade fever that night, but that was it. No regression in speech or behavior. No seizures. Google anti-vax to pro-vax and will bring up a site with testimonials from other moms that changed their minds as well as health professionals that changed their minds as well. I can't remember the exact name of the site, but it was very helpful to me. I hope this helps.
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18-02-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
check out this video of the congressional hearings on the autism laced vaccines. The whole video is telling. the one part the congress lady asks about the science behind pumping so many vaccines at once into children. And they CDC responds that they have to cram as many vaccines as possible because black kids might not come back to the doctor so you have to jack them all up with as many as possible whenever they get the chance.



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18-02-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(18-02-2015 03:39 PM)Anti Wrote:  check out this video of the congressional hearings on the autism laced vaccines. The whole video is telling. the one part the congress lady asks about the science behind pumping so many vaccines at once into children. And they CDC responds that they have to cram as many vaccines as possible because black kids might not come back to the doctor so you have to jack them all up with as many as possible whenever they get the chance.




Extrapolating what isn't there and embellishing what is said. From what I understand (without seeing the video, am in class), impoverished neighborhoods have low vaccination rates and people rarely come back to get additional vaccines or boosters. So, when people do come in, it's best to get all the vaccines possible as to improve immunization rates.

It's not some conspiracy against black people or poor people that you're trying to present. It's realistically trying to improve immunization rates in a different culture and class which doesn't have good rates of visiting a doctor, largely due to our broken health care system.
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18-02-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
Quote:This incompetent study was the result, allegedly, of discussions between Hooker and a senior psychologist at the CDC named William Thompson. For reasons that are still not clear, Thompson, a co-author on an important study by DeStefano et al, confided in Hooker, who, betraying his confidences, recorded much of what he said, an action whose legality is unclear given that it’s unclear where all of these recordings were made (one party or two party consent states). Hooker then teamed up with Andrew Wakefield to cherry pick bits to make it sound as though Thompson were confessing to some horrible crime of data manipulation to hide this “bombshell” result reported by Wakefield. Thus was born the “CDC whistleblower,” who featured prominently in the video likening DeStefano et al and the “coverup” to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/did-...ican-boys/

TLDR: This all culminated in a paper that reanalysed the earlier work but was so bad it was retracted even by a new journal desperate for content.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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18-02-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(18-02-2015 03:39 PM)Anti Wrote:  check out this video of the congressional hearings on the autism laced vaccines. The whole video is telling. the one part the congress lady asks about the science behind pumping so many vaccines at once into children. And they CDC responds that they have to cram as many vaccines as possible because black kids might not come back to the doctor so you have to jack them all up with as many as possible whenever they get the chance.




There is no such thing as an"autism laced vaccine". Read a fucking science book.

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18-02-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Former anti-vax: Need help understanding issues about vaccines
(18-02-2015 03:54 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  Extrapolating what isn't there and embellishing what is said. From what I understand (without seeing the video, am in class), impoverished neighborhoods have low vaccination rates and people rarely come back to get additional vaccines or boosters. So, when people do come in, it's best to get all the vaccines possible as to improve immunization rates.

It's not some conspiracy against black people or poor people that you're trying to present. It's realistically trying to improve immunization rates in a different culture and class which doesn't have good rates of visiting a doctor, largely due to our broken health care system.

Maybe watch the video first.... and how do you know there is not a conspiracy against black people? MLK and Malcolm X sure thought there was a conspiracy.

What about the racist inequality in the justice system? How is that not a conspiracy?
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