Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
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16-01-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
(16-01-2012 04:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-01-2012 02:40 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

And again, this was simply showing the power of God in a figurative way.

Quote:"The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth."

...ummm, you do know this is taken from when Nebuchadnezzar was describing his dream, right? This is pretty out-of-context.

Quote:"Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory."

There are several explanations for this, but the two that are most likely are:

1) it was a vision
2) the original Greek leans towards the known world

Nope. The most likely is that it is all gibberish.
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16-01-2012, 05:56 PM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
KC, I'm curious, what are your thoughts about verses such as Isaiah 11:12? "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." Still metaphorical? Huh

Also found this site: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c017.html
Anyone care to try refuting it? Or commenting?
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16-01-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
Regardless of what a few conflicting out of context verses imply, the Hebrews certainly didn't think the earth was a sphere.

[Image: Ancient+Hebrew+Cosmology.jpg]
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16-01-2012, 07:22 PM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
Welcome the forum Squeeker92.

So your friend believes that all the authors of the Old Testament believed the Earth was round...

Specifically, Isaiah, Proverbs and Job all thought the Earth was round. Okay....so that gives us a timeframe between around 970 BCE and 500 BCE.
Hmmm....rather than fling lines of text the Bible (a flawed source), I would suggest you consider the historical evolution of humanities relationship with the Flat Earth vs Round Earth ideas.

Let’s start with the history of the Flat Earth theory. Have a read of this.

Armed with this knowledge, consider Isaiah and use what little sources we have available because there are no genuine sources to support his existence or otherwise. He seems to be dated to around the 7th or 8th Century BCE. Why is this important?
Well, our Flat Earth studies tell us that everyone in the Middle East during this period believed in a flat earth, shaped like a shield or disc. There is evidence to support this.
So...Isaiah (if he existed) or his contemporaries would have supported a disc shaped Earth.

Right....onto Job, probably written by at least 2 different authors somewhere between 6th & 4th Century BCE. Also the version you read in the bible isn’t the original, we’ve found fragments of the original in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the original is different. As with most compromised sources, historians have fun trying to work out what happened. There are a several theories – it’s Sumerian (Flat Earth) or it’s Babylonian (Flat Earth) or it's Egyptian (Flat Earth).

Finally Proverbs, apparently written by Soloman, Agur, Lemuel (or his mum) and an unknown author. Christians seem to think it was written in around 970 BCE. This would point to flat Earth again.

So in answer to your original question, no, all of the biblical authors of the Old Testament would have believed in a Flat Earth if they were writing between 970 and 500 BCE. If the books were written later...then Job, Soloman and Isaiah didn't write them becuase they would be dead.

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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16-01-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
Holy jesus (no pun intended)
I honestly didn't think so many people would respond to this thread! Thanks a bunch fellow atheists Big Grin

Just waiting on a response now
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16-01-2012, 10:33 PM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
(16-01-2012 09:13 PM)squeeker92 Wrote:  Holy jesus (no pun intended)
I honestly didn't think so many people would respond to this thread! Thanks a bunch fellow atheists Big Grin

Just waiting on a response now

Welcome.

The God debate is something that will continue until he either visits us or we discover the true cause of the Big Bang, and maybe beyond. I particularly like the god debates between the William Lane Craig type crowd and the Atheist professors. Look them up on the web and you'll have hours of entertainment.

There is really no reason to discuss with Christians "the possibility" that the bible is an obvious fabrication of myths and BS. How has the evidence of evolution worked out? Are they still believing in creation? They are committed to belief. No facts deter them. Psychologists have determined that people filter incoming facts based on their belief bias. Holding their nose to the smell of christianity's rotting corpse will just piss them off. That said, then why no just piss them off? Ridicule is the only tactic that I employ these days. I've wasted too much time with logic and reason. This is like watering a sidewalk hoping for grass to grow. You need a sledge hammer first to break up the concrete barrier so that the soft earth is exposed.
Then there is a chance for growth.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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17-01-2012, 08:46 AM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
(16-01-2012 10:33 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(16-01-2012 09:13 PM)squeeker92 Wrote:  Holy jesus (no pun intended)
I honestly didn't think so many people would respond to this thread! Thanks a bunch fellow atheists Big Grin

Just waiting on a response now

Welcome.

The God debate is something that will continue until he either visits us or we discover the true cause of the Big Bang, and maybe beyond. I particularly like the god debates between the William Lane Craig type crowd and the Atheist professors. Look them up on the web and you'll have hours of entertainment.

There is really no reason to discuss with Christians "the possibility" that the bible is an obvious fabrication of myths and BS. How has the evidence of evolution worked out? Are they still believing in creation? They are committed to belief. No facts deter them. Psychologists have determined that people filter incoming facts based on their belief bias. Holding their nose to the smell of christianity's rotting corpse will just piss them off. That said, then why no just piss them off? Ridicule is the only tactic that I employ these days. I've wasted too much time with logic and reason. This is like watering a sidewalk hoping for grass to grow. You need a sledge hammer first to break up the concrete barrier so that the soft earth is exposed.
Then there is a chance for growth.

Agreed.

If I tell someone I saw a giant, swung a slingshot, hit him in the head and killed them on my way home from work. I'd be crazy.

If I tell someone I saw a dragon. They'd say... "Yeah fuckin' right man."

But I was faith healed and now the doctors can't explain it! Uh huh.

If I told you I saw someone immediately get faith healed and no scientist could explain it. You'd also call me crazy and stupid.

If I said I saw a cockatrice... you'd probably ask me if I spotted the chupacabra too.

If I told you I found a place where satyrs were dancing you'd probably ask me what drugs I was taking.

I can go on and on and on...

But if I tell you "Hey we just mapped dark matter...."
"This is a picture of the background radiation leftover from the big bang..."
"Our universe is expanding, isn't that amazing? It's huge! We're not at the center of it either."
.......... a rational person would look at the evidence at hand and go, "That's awesome!"

A person who understands that the cause of how we came to be, the universe, our galaxy is so much more complex than we thought but that the sciences can begin to explain things in simplicity and with evidence may be blown away. Amazed. Baffled.

The entire chapter of creation never made any sense to me. After reading through and understanding now why it makes no sense because of where it came from I now understand better that it's crazy. But of course these myths came from people in a time when the earth was flat. When the sky was the sky and heavens. Stars were put there so they could navigate and understand a calendar, not because it was there from the big bang and that stars were super giant masses of gas and elements with heat beyond comprehension.

We know the dinosaurs were here. If giants existed, why don't we see those? That's odd. It's suggested /a/ giant was killed meaning there's more than one. We show no evidence of small races of giants coexisting with man. But it's in the bible, so of course... that happened.

Yet people would soon just rather believe myths... than reason. People who are entirely dedicated to their faith will spend their ENTIRE LIFE trying to disprove the evidence so it doesn't rock their boat.

That would mean they are capable of morals without their god. YEAH.
That would mean they are capable of being good to his fellow man without a god. YEAH!
That would mean that the reason we are here is more complex, more amazing, more unfathomably intense than the idea of "bazinga, you're here!" YEAH!

Yep. We're the crazy ones Tongue
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17-01-2012, 09:40 AM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
Still no reply from her...lol

But gotta say again- Thanks a bunch people! Big Grin
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17-01-2012, 09:50 AM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
No matter what you say to this girl, if it doesn't match what she already holds to be true, she isn't going to listen to any of it.

Her mind is on auto-pilot and there is no co-pilot.
If you want to get through to her, try to increase her critical thinking skills in other areas of her life

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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17-01-2012, 09:54 AM
RE: Forum Newbie - NEED HELP! Please help a fellow atheist
Yeh I only realized how pointless is was talking to her near the end. She's one of those fanatical types...
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