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08-08-2013, 01:35 AM
RE: Fracking
(07-08-2013 03:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'd say that gag order is on pretty slippery legal ground.

The children cannot legally consent to it as they are minors. When they are 18, they can probably say whatever they want, get gagged again, and sue for another $750,000.

Extremely unlikely.
It's not my field of legal expertise, (though I suppose nothing is now I got kicked out of uni... Dodgy ) but it'd probably be along the lines of the parents are "in control" of the kids and so if the parents consent, that's enough.
Like if someone had the power to pull someone else's plug.

And it's not that they can't talk about fracking, it'll be that they can't talk about the incident that resulted in the settlement in the first place.
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08-08-2013, 02:34 AM
RE: Fracking
(07-08-2013 06:34 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  That's like saying I should be of the opinion that vaccines can cause autism, even if there aren't clinical trial studies demonstrating the link.

Not at all. The studies conducted concerning the dangers of vaccinations have repeatedly yielded negative results. There is no danger with vaccines. However, studies conducted for fracking have concluded that there are health risks.

(07-08-2013 06:34 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  It's known there are some risks associated with fracking, just as with any type of resource harvesting. But based on the evidence available, I see no reason to end fracking. The risks just don't outweigh the benefits.

The risks far outweigh the benefits.

Occasional TTA returner then leaverer.
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08-08-2013, 08:14 AM
RE: Fracking
(07-08-2013 03:06 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 01:14 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "That came from American Association for Justice (Formerly the Association of Trial Lawyers of America) website."

They have a vested interest in their view. There is a reason one should seek out unbiased sources.

"You're not going to find industry sanctioned papers (for the same reason they want to shut these poor people up) but if you search there are tons of documentaries and news articles from some pretty solid sources...

Films: Gasland, Gasland 2, Weebo's War"

There are plenty of people researching the issue at the university level and most of them I know don't like fracking. But the documentaries are in the same boat and anything they say should be taken with a grain of salt.

"That account is taken from Weebo's war. His wife claimed to suffer multiple miscarriages and he lost a most of his sheep heard (but there are similar accounts all over the web and I linked a few of them above). Weebo is a crazy right wing Christian family/cult/terrorist kinda guy which adds a another dimension to the whole thing...I wanted to hate him but I couldn't, dude has legitimate beef with big gas."

But is there anything that actually links it? Once again, this is someone with a vested interest in their claims being true. Money works as a lubricant for greed on both sides of the fence.

"Whatever toxic shit doesn't come out of the gas well is capped off with a layer of concrete and never examined or maintained again. Surveys show that a large number of older wells are already leaking unchecked."

Right, and this is where concentration matters (as pointed out in the scientific american article you posted) and depth of source rock matters. If the source rock is deep enough, it is not a hazard to groundwater or escape via fissure.

"We don't even know exactly what kinds of toxic shit they are using:"

The idea that they are using some ridicoulously hazardous chemcial that no one is aware of is a stretch for me. I have no doubt they are using some nasty stuff but at what concentrations and at what locations (different companies in different areas would use different mixtures). I'm more concerned with what they do after recovery, that would be the largest volume of that crap.

"I'm sure that depth is a big factor but the truth is that they don't recover all of what they send down, they seal up what they can't pump out but concrete doesn't block liquid forever and the methane flows up and is released if the well cap is damaged."

Sealing the well isn't about maintaing pressure, it would be to keep stuff from falling in. The overburden is all that is needed to prevent escape. Once you remove the hyrdaulic pressure from the rock, the pore space closes up. Meaning that the stuff in it, gets trapped as the overburden pushes the pore space shut.

Once again, unless it is too shallow.

"Right that is the law, this one is more for the other readers of this thread. In my experience most people think that it works like Beverly Hillbillies....You find gas, you sell the rights, you make a fortune, you move to LA...but the reality for most families is that they are forced to accept the presence of the gas co. and nothing in return."

The issue is that most people sell the rights (or buy the property without the rights to save money) without knowing A] what they are doing and B] what resources are on the land they have.

I dunno man. I think it's going to depend on where you get your info from. Big gas or little people. For me there are far too many personal accounts hitting on all the same details and I have a hard time believing that the gas industry can come anywhere near the levels of safety I would want to see based on whats been done in the past and the track record of the oil industry (many of the same companies) as well as the sheer scope of such projects...I can't believe that an inch of concrete will protect the water my daughter and her progeny will be drinking.

Watch Josh Fox on Bill:

I think Bill Maher is funny and his documentary "Religulous" is great. But he seems like a bit of an attention-seeking whore. He is also buddy-buddy with Michael Moore, so I don't cut him too much slack (I realize this is someone on his show, but it doesn't give it much clout in my opinion).

I trust the researchers I know who don't like fracking. It isn't because of these anecdotal testimonies that they have issue either.
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