Free Choice
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27-01-2013, 09:04 PM
RE: Free Choice
Nice. Big Grin

"The problem with faith is that it really is a conversation stopper. Faith is a declaration of immunity to the powers of conversation. It is a reason why you do not have to give reasons for what you believe." - Sam Harris
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27-01-2013, 11:35 PM
RE: Free Choice
(18-01-2013 04:45 PM)Chaosss Wrote:  We are a product of our environment, education and genetics, I doubt there's such thing as free will. Obviously, we make choices and have the ability of thinking and feeling but even these are taught.

What about preferences and opinions?
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29-01-2013, 01:26 AM
RE: Free Choice
Aren't preferences and opinions the result of prior experience?

I really hope I'm not just talking out of my ass, but this makes sense to me. Look at babies, for instance. If a baby is breast fed for the first months of it's life, is it likely to quickly take to a bottle or vice versa?

Infants commonly push their boundaries. It's their nature. It happens in any culture. They learn from the results of their instincts and prior experience. How the parents react. How other children react. Should an infant be blamed for this behavior? I don't think so.

These learnings become the basis for other inquiries and other lessons. As a result of prior experience, an infant may learn that hitting another child is a bad idea or they may learn that their reward is worth the risk. They may learn that throwing a fit doesn't get them what they want or that doing so will eventually give them a reward.

These lessons build upon each other as we grow. They become more complex. And so on. And so forth.

Where does free will enter into it? We can only work with the tools we have, whether they be instinctual or learned. These tools are the result of prior experience. Our environment and our instincts plus the positive or negative feedback shapes them. And even negative feedback can be considered a positive. Does the child crave attention? Does acting out get them the attention they crave?

I think the same is true of our preferences and opinions. They refine over time. They may completely change as a result of experience or influence. But does that mean that we are the authors of them? That we spontaneously decide that celery is terrible? I don't think so.

Have you ever felt a captive or victim of your thoughts? Ever laid awake at night worrying? Isn't it safe to say that all of us do? Do we choose to be a captive/victim of our insecurities?

"The problem with faith is that it really is a conversation stopper. Faith is a declaration of immunity to the powers of conversation. It is a reason why you do not have to give reasons for what you believe." - Sam Harris
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29-01-2013, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2013 10:50 AM by Chaos.)
RE: Free Choice
(27-01-2013 11:35 PM)rastathecontroller Wrote:  What about preferences and opinions?
Preferences and options are also educated, inherited or influenced. We have some predispositions from birth which ARE inherited genetically, then, later in life, genes with certain functions are activated. Without any social interactions, education and culture, we wouldn't have too much options of which we benefit in our civilized world, then our only priority would be fighting for our own survival. Maybe it sounds depressing but what makes us humans is mainly, education - without being taught to speak, to make correlations, to learn different meanings and to walk, our behavior wouldn't be very different to that of animals. There's a documentary on youtube if you're interested in this subject, it is called "Feral Children"

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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29-01-2013, 11:00 AM
RE: Free Choice
"~without being taught to speak, to make correlations, to learn different
meanings and to walk, our behavior wouldn't be very different to that of
animals."

So god taught us to speak and use logic?
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29-01-2013, 11:22 AM
RE: Free Choice
(29-01-2013 11:00 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  "~without being taught to speak, to make correlations, to learn different
meanings and to walk, our behavior wouldn't be very different to that of
animals."

So god taught us to speak and use logic?
Who said god taught us?

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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29-01-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: Free Choice
I was asking you who taught us to speak and use logic. You asserted that without someone to teach us those things, we're doomed to live an animal like existence and if that is indeed true, it presupposes that someone or something taught us.
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29-01-2013, 11:36 AM
RE: Free Choice
(29-01-2013 11:31 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I was asking you who taught us to speak and use logic. You asserted that without someone to teach us those things, we're doomed to live an animal like existence and if that is indeed true, it presupposes that someone or something taught us.

Evolution. Nowadays, parents and society.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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29-01-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: Free Choice
Evolution doesn't exist. It's a concept used to describe how humans (and other life forms) became what we are today.
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29-01-2013, 12:06 PM
RE: Free Choice
(29-01-2013 11:43 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Evolution doesn't exist. It's a concept used to describe how humans (and other life forms) became what we are today.
How's that, evolution doesn't exist but describes how humans evolved Consider
It makes absolutely no fucking sense.

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