Free Will or Determinisn
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01-12-2012, 12:10 PM
Free Will or Determinisn
A friend was discussing that they now believe in determinism because they read a book by a lawyer (they didn't recall the name or the name of the author but it changed their life). They claim Buddha and others also believe that. I always considered Buddhism to be rather agnostic about gods. But ok...I don't know much about it. But from what little I've read about determinism (mostly on wikipedia) it seems to me that it just spanks of a new type of god or religion....or something along those lines.

Also, if there is another thread here somewhere please point me in that direction.

Finally, I haven't a clue if is even posted in the right place. As far as I can tell it's a philosophy and not a scientific theory or hypnosis. I do understand it does bleed over into quantum mechanics/theory but I'm having a hard time seeing why.

Thanks in advance,
Kelly

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01-12-2012, 12:13 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
This is gonna be good.

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01-12-2012, 12:34 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
If you search for "free will", it's been debated to death on other threads, including other places.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...God?page=4

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01-12-2012, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2012 02:46 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
I was more interested in this idea of Determinism, not as a specific dogma based but as a philosophy which seems to be gaining momentum. I do recognize several debates on free will, but determinism as a philosophy is completely different -- it seems at least to me -- in my limited understanding of the term.

In any event, I request a mod remove my post. Thank you Bucky for pointing out my error, I won't be starting anymore threads -- since there is not a single topic I've searched that's never been discussed before.

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01-12-2012, 02:56 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
(01-12-2012 02:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I was more interested in this idea of Determinism, not as a specific dogma based but as a philosophy which seems to be gaining momentum. I do recognize several debates on free will, but determinism as a philosophy is completely different -- it seems at least to me -- in my limited understanding of the term.

In any event, I request a mod remove my post. Thank you Bucky for pointing out my error, I won't be starting anymore threads -- since there is not a single topic I've searched that's never been discussed before.
Hey we all have off days, be nice Smile I think Bucky was just trying to be helpful.

By determinism you mean the idea that our free will is an illusion and really we are just obeying the laws of nature - simply very complex machines ? I subscribe to that idea.
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01-12-2012, 03:19 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
(01-12-2012 02:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  In any event, I request a mod remove my post. Thank you Bucky for pointing out my error, I won't be starting anymore threads -- since there is not a single topic I've searched that's never been discussed before.
There's nothing wrong with your thread. There are literally 1,000s of threads and the search tool is almost useless. AND, a lot of people, yourself included, have joined well after some of those other discussions. There isn't any reason to stop talking about something just because Bucky talked about it somewhere else. He is Emperor of the Universe in name only, so feel free to start whatever discussions you like. Thumbsup

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01-12-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
(01-12-2012 03:19 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(01-12-2012 02:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  In any event, I request a mod remove my post. Thank you Bucky for pointing out my error, I won't be starting anymore threads -- since there is not a single topic I've searched that's never been discussed before.
There's nothing wrong with your thread. There are literally 1,000s of threads and the search tool is almost useless. AND, a lot of people, yourself included, have joined well after some of those other discussions. There isn't any reason to stop talking about something just because Bucky talked about it somewhere else. He is Emperor of the Universe in name only, so feel free to start whatever discussions you like. Thumbsup
Agree. (I am emperor of the universe). Seriously, though, I was just pointing to other discussions. It's a very interesting subject, especially the neuro-psych aspects, (to me anyhoo). There are always guests stopping by who haven't seen our ideas about it, anyway. So have at it. I say there is no such thing. One actions are totally determined by what is present in the molecular structure of one's brain. You can't choose something your memory is not aware of. In making the choice, you maximize your satisfaction. Sometimes people regret the choice of short term, over long term satisfaction. The molecular workings are the brain are "determined" by genetics, and past experiences.

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01-12-2012, 07:34 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
(01-12-2012 12:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  A friend was discussing that they now believe in determinism because they read a book by a lawyer (they didn't recall the name or the name of the author but it changed their life). They claim Buddha and others also believe that. I always considered Buddhism to be rather agnostic about gods. But ok...I don't know much about it. But from what little I've read about determinism (mostly on wikipedia) it seems to me that it just spanks of a new type of god or religion....or something along those lines.

Also, if there is another thread here somewhere please point me in that direction.

Finally, I haven't a clue if is even posted in the right place. As far as I can tell it's a philosophy and not a scientific theory or hypnosis. I do understand it does bleed over into quantum mechanics/theory but I'm having a hard time seeing why.

Thanks in advance,
Kelly
There is a claim that Buddhism is atheistic.
They certainly look into supernatural phenomena, in my view.
Buddha never claimed to be a God and advocated personal testing.
Heavy atheist Sam Harris has shown some interest in it. Weeping

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01-12-2012, 08:19 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
(01-12-2012 02:56 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-12-2012 02:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I was more interested in this idea of Determinism, not as a specific dogma based but as a philosophy which seems to be gaining momentum. I do recognize several debates on free will, but determinism as a philosophy is completely different -- it seems at least to me -- in my limited understanding of the term.

In any event, I request a mod remove my post. Thank you Bucky for pointing out my error, I won't be starting anymore threads -- since there is not a single topic I've searched that's never been discussed before.
Hey we all have off days, be nice Smile I think Bucky was just trying to be helpful.

By determinism you mean the idea that our free will is an illusion and really we are just obeying the laws of nature - simply very complex machines ? I subscribe to that idea.

I'm with the stupid canine here, except that's not determinism he's describing, that's mechanism. I think there are far too many natural stochastic processes for hard determinism to be tenable. Hell even at the quantum level things are described probabilistically.

Free will is trickier, but there is increasing evidence that what we traditionally think of as free will, i.e. our perception that we make conscious decisions, is illusory. "As of 2008, the upcoming outcome of a decision could be found in study of the brain activity in the prefrontal and parietal cortex up to 7 seconds before the subject was aware of their decision."

And I really don't see any problem with starting a new thread which reexamines covered territory, Kelly. I think it's often preferable to dredging up an old thread. Fresh look, fresh eyes, and all that.

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01-12-2012, 08:21 PM
RE: Free Will or Determinisn
(01-12-2012 07:34 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(01-12-2012 12:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  A friend was discussing that they now believe in determinism because they read a book by a lawyer (they didn't recall the name or the name of the author but it changed their life). They claim Buddha and others also believe that. I always considered Buddhism to be rather agnostic about gods. But ok...I don't know much about it. But from what little I've read about determinism (mostly on wikipedia) it seems to me that it just spanks of a new type of god or religion....or something along those lines.

Also, if there is another thread here somewhere please point me in that direction.

Finally, I haven't a clue if is even posted in the right place. As far as I can tell it's a philosophy and not a scientific theory or hypnosis. I do understand it does bleed over into quantum mechanics/theory but I'm having a hard time seeing why.

Thanks in advance,
Kelly
There is a claim that Buddhism is atheistic.
They certainly look into supernatural phenomena, in my view.
Buddha never claimed to be a God and advocated personal testing.
Heavy atheist Sam Harris has shown some interest in it. Weeping
There are different sects or schools of Buddhism, some are atheistic, some not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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