Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
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28-03-2017, 08:39 PM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
(28-03-2017 08:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  This topic was dead a long time before someone necro'd it.

Like Frankenstein's monster, it keeps returning.

Hobo
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28-03-2017, 09:54 PM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
(28-03-2017 05:26 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 02:40 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  I apologize if this has been covered but I'm hoping someone could provide me with some good books on both Free Will and Determinism theories.

Under my recent apostasy I find myself leaning more towards determinism but I really want to dive into each much deeper.

Sam Harris is on my list.

Thanks in advance!

https://www.closertotruth.com/

Here you will find interviews with some leading experts on the issue of free will and it's nature. You may find this site of interest.

With William Lane Craig ? Really, and not even ONE woman ?
Seriously ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-03-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
(28-03-2017 09:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 05:26 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  https://www.closertotruth.com/

Here you will find interviews with some leading experts on the issue of free will and it's nature. You may find this site of interest.

With William Lane Craig ? Really, and not even ONE woman ?
Seriously ?

WCL is an idiot, but he has a fairly large following due to his many debates and active website. You won't learn much from him but you will get a Christian apologist's take on FW.

For another well known Christian's take on free will, download Martin Luther's book, "Bondage of the Will".
"Free will is impossible." - Martin Luther

And yes, there are females interviewed in the various free will series on this site.
Jenann Ismael, Alison Gopnik, and Thalia Wheatly are three. How careful did you check this out?
Not carefully it seems to me.

Yog Sothoth! Yog Sothoth! Come back old ones! Yog Sothoth!

Cheerful Charlie
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29-03-2017, 10:15 AM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
I didn't have time to read all of the comments here, but I'll just hope I'm not repeating anything from anyone else. I lean towards hard determinism simply because it gives explanations for any given phenomena. But the issue of determinism is not necessarily at odds with free will. Compatibilism is still a viable option and I think it really depends on how you formulate "free will". It doesn't necessarily have to be libertarian free will. Further, I think the main issue for determinism, instead of free will, is actually the discoveries of quantum mechanics. The entire structure of quantum mechanics operates on probabilistic assessment of outcomes rather than determined ones. I take interpretations of QM that allow for a halfway compatibility with determinism, but I don't think the issue has been completely resolved. I'd recommend [/i]The User Illusion[i] if you're looking for books about free will.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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15-04-2017, 05:23 PM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
I know I have free will intuitively. However, when I look at the machinations of the brain on the butcher's board or with a dissecting needle we can't see free will. So should common sense yield to philosophy, or is common sense a check on our philosophical theories and they should yield to common sense? I will agree that if we do, then our freewill is very limited. However, given that I'm older now, at the ripe age of 34, and I can keep on my mind numerous actions of which to select from and choose on those selections, then isn't that freewill? If our choices are choosen before we even realize it then aren't we just glorified zombies? That seems unintuitive.
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15-04-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
(15-04-2017 05:23 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  However, given that I'm older now, at the ripe age of 34, and I can keep on my mind numerous actions of which to select from and choose on those selections, then isn't that freewill? If our choices are choosen before we even realize it then aren't we just glorified zombies? That seems unintuitive.

Might not be predetermined. Could be that someone is pulling your strings and it's to their benefit that you think they're not. My money's on one of them 100 trillion buggers running around my gut but it's gonna be tough to pinpoint. At least now that we discovered the gut-brain axis they're using we can monitor their movements more closely. We'll catch one.

#sigh
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15-04-2017, 06:06 PM
RE: Free Will vs. Determinism... references?
(15-04-2017 05:23 PM)Stephen Pedersen Wrote:  I know I have free will intuitively. However, when I look at the machinations of the brain on the butcher's board or with a dissecting needle we can't see free will. So should common sense yield to philosophy, or is common sense a check on our philosophical theories and they should yield to common sense? I will agree that if we do, then our freewill is very limited. However, given that I'm older now, at the ripe age of 34, and I can keep on my mind numerous actions of which to select from and choose on those selections, then isn't that freewill? If our choices are choosen before we even realize it then aren't we just glorified zombies? That seems unintuitive.

If you stop defining your self as your consciousness, then your decisions still come from the choices of your self -- your brain-in-a-body. If your choices are determined, they are determined by your self.

Determinists conflate symbolic causes with material causes when they say "everything is caused". It is more than obvious that many of our choices are based on our symbolic processing rather than more directly caused by material influences. That is the "free will" we talk about, though the name is misleading and comes with all sorts of baggage.
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