Free will???
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10-01-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Free will???
This issue doesn't come up for me since I don't believe in free will.

However there are good responses if you do buy into the concept of free will. It depends on the point the throat is making. One I hear is that God can't provide proof of himself because that would go against free will. Everyone knows that assault is a crime and you can go to jail for it. We know jail is real, we know people go there. But people still choose to commit assault. Apply this to theology, Saran knew God existed and still chose to rebel.

Or perhaps the wold has evil because free will. We got a few theists who claim god's live is earned and free will causes evil. What about babies born with horrible deformations? Babies whose entire short life is pain and suffering. What have they done for that? How about regular evil, like rapists and arsonists. Why not stop them before they do the deed? That is after they have made up their mind but before they hurt anyone? Why doesn't God see to it that a cop shows up right as the person is about to hurt someone and stop them?

Without the specific theist objection a real response is difficult.
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10-01-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Free will???
An evil act can be stopped by the use of free will.
Since god cannot stop an evil act, he has no free will.

Our free will to act is greater than a god with infinite power and no free will to use it.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-01-2016, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2016 03:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Free will???
Depends on what you're even talking about. First, the term has to be defined.
In Moral Theology, the idea assumes that ALL the elements of a choice are "present and reviewable" when a decision is made. That's been proven to be not the case, as well as impossible. (Google MRI scans and decision making, as well as Dr. David Eagleman's lectures on YouTube, and TED.)

At any one point in time, decisions are dependent on training, habits, personal history and physical limitations. Are theists free to flap their wings and fly ? No. There are multiple constraints on everyone, all the time. Individual decisions have been proven (by Neuro-science) to be the result of largely subconscious "wars" (which effectively ends the notion of ''free will" from Moral Theology.)

Is it possible to change one's response to certain, (even suddenly surprising) events, or make long term changes that one works out in advance and plan for. Yes.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-01-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: Free will???
Some pretty intriguing evidence building that punches a big, fat hole in the very notion of human free will. One example here.

"So it turns out that there are neurons in your brain that know you are about to make a movement the better part of a second before you know it yourself."

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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10-01-2016, 06:27 PM
RE: Free will???
(10-01-2016 06:20 PM)claywise Wrote:  Some pretty intriguing evidence building that punches a big, fat hole in the very notion of human free will. One example here.

"So it turns out that there are neurons in your brain that know you are about to make a movement the better part of a second before you know it yourself."

It's up to 7 seconds as of 2008.

#sigh
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10-01-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Free will???
(10-01-2016 02:32 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  How do you debunk an answer theists the whole issue of free will???

You don't.

They have to come up with a coherent definition before any debunking is required.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-01-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: Free will???
(10-01-2016 09:00 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  My free will allows me to make choices. I can consider the consequences of one action or another or the consequences of doing nothing.

Even after considering which option is the best choice, I can still choose to take actions that aren't the best choice and sometimes even pick an option that is clearly the worst choice.

My free will can be limited when my ability to control my own actions are limited.

As a being born naturally in this universe, free will is part of my nature.


Er, no. You have "free will" because Augustine lost a child a mistress and his mum. In order to bolster his belief he came up with an asinine idea, Free Will.

I have as do others, cancer. I did NOT choose it. Free will in a world where one must eat to survive, battle the elements and try and stay healthy cannot exist.

Think about that next time you HAVE to go to work and pay bills.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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13-01-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: Free will???
(10-01-2016 02:32 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  How do you debunk an answer theists the whole issue of free will???

Romans 9 and 10
Ephesians 1
1 Thessalonians 1
Basically the entire Old Testament
Pretty much everything Jesus and Paul said

The Bible clearly teaches election. Free will is not a "thing". If a Christian thinks it is, they aren't reading and following the Bible.

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13-01-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Free will???
(13-01-2016 02:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 02:32 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  How do you debunk an answer theists the whole issue of free will???

Romans 9 and 10
Ephesians 1
1 Thessalonians 1
Basically the entire Old Testament
Pretty much everything Jesus and Paul said

The Bible clearly teaches election. Free will is not a "thing". If a Christian thinks it is, they aren't reading and following the Bible.

You saying the Book of St. Augustine isn't canon eh?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-01-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: Free will???
(13-01-2016 02:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The Bible clearly teaches election. Free will is not a "thing". If a Christian thinks it is, they aren't reading and following the Bible.

KC is correct. Free will is a western Roman idea. In the capital, Constantinople, it was seen as heresy.

The Bible clearly states that God has prepared everything. Including all our actions. We are nothing but choreographed puppets.

Which makes xianity and anyone who follows it literally equally hideous.

I piss on that book. Such a human disgrace. But I guess ideas like this get started when the gap between rich and poor gets so wide as it did in the Roman empire.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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